US-05 (or maybe one of the altbier of kolsch yeasts?)
Should I cold crash the yeast out and fine when it’s done? Is it supposed to stay kind of cloudy? Does my choice of finishing yeast make a difference for this?
I would hold the salt addition until final packaging. In addition, I wouldn’t increase the sodium content any higher than about 250 ppm. That seems to be the ‘sweet spot’ for salt addition. I’m not going to evaluate your salt addition and the resulting sodium content, but do take the time to figure that out for yourself.
Since finding out that styles like Berliner Weisse DO NOT use a majority of wheat in their grist (see Ron Pattinson’s blog), I question the use of 60% wheat in this beer. I find that a high proportion of wheat makes these soured styles too bready tasting. I would reverse the percentages in this beer…40% wheat.
US-05 will definitely work to make a fine gose, but I prefer WY 1007 (as I do for my Berliner styles as well). It seems to ferment well in the presence of a low pH, is fairly neutral, and hell, its GERMAN!
What I read was one of the 2 lactos in the blend does well at lower temps but maybe not both? I was going to try and keep it up a bit higher than room temp in order to get both strains to contribute. Mostly because some people report better results with the “handful of grain” method, and they suspect it’s because a pure pitch doesn’t offer as much complexity. I’m hoping with the blend it will have a bit more complexity.
Where I’m at now works out to about 270 ppm sodium. The funny thing is I thought I was starting on the far side of the low end of the range based on everything I read. I figured I would start low and adjust if necessary. I’ll cut to 250 ppm and go from there.
Surprised about the pils/wheat ratio. “Brewing with Wheat” doesn’t give a ratio for Gose, but contains several references (including some very old ones) for Berliner Weisse starting at 50:50 all the way to 80% wheat.
I’ve gotten to the point that I’m only using hops for dry hopping my sour beers. Some say try to keep the IBUs at 5 or less, and at that point I think “why bother at all?” Just a thought. If we are lowering hops that much because we want our lacto to kick butt, why use them at all? In a firmly soured beer I dont miss them. Then if you want some hop flavor/aroma just dry hop. Just an opinion.
Yes, Plantarum I think. And it was isolated from a handful of grain, so there you go! But seriously, I’ve only pitched pure cultures so I can’t speak to the handful of grain method, but what I can say is that the Omega culture does more in a couple of days at 65° than what Wyeast 5335 does in a week at 90° - at least from a souring standpoint. For complexity in my BWs I like to add some Brett L.
Your process is exactly the one one I use, can’t speak of the lacto blend you’re using as I use the 5335. 2-3 days at 90 is perfect.
+1 on WY1007, great yeast and tolerates the low pH and as for salt, I’ve used up to 22g and got comments of a bit too salty and 15g got perhaps a bit more salt… I use sea salt and have found that 17-18g is pretty good in a 5 gallon batch. I add the salt at 10 minutes left in the boil.
As for the malt I’m at 60-40 malt to wheat and mash at 152, last batch scored a 40. I’ve got an entry coming in a couple weeks with another batch so my hopes are high again!
Interesting point Jim. I know that for the last straight lambic I brewed, I did not add any hops whatsoever and that beer turned out fantastic picking up a medal as both a straight lambic (3rd) and as a raspberry lambic (1st) in the same competition this past spring.
Wow, that is a great score for a traditional gose. I have always struggled when entering those in comps as some judges just don’t understand the style very well. Hopefully the new 2015 guidelines will change that.
With the process I’m using, I don’t need to worry about hops inhibiting the lacto since they won’t be added until after the lacto has done it’s thing.
I’m just using bittering hops to counter any residual sweetness. I expect it to finish around 1.008-ish so it probably needs just a touch.
Now for sours where the bugs are pitched during or after fermentation, those are going to finish extremely dry, correct? I can see foregoing even small bittering additions for that type of sour.
Another funny thing about Gose is I’ve read information that these should have just a touch of a sour twang to them. And then I’ve read stuff that suggests they should be full bore sour like a Berliner.
I know the ones I’ve been able to try locally have not been mouth puckering sour like Berliner’s are. But I do like really sour stuff!
I read your Gose threads and then also got some feedback from porkchop on NB forums and read everything else I could find. Your process seemed repeatable plus the bugs will only be in one of my fermenters, which is appealing as I’m still nervous about taking my first step into sours.
Sounds like I’m close on the salt. The Gose’s that I’ve enjoyed the most you could barely tell had salt in them. I’ve had a few that were really salty, but that’s not what I’m going for.
For some reason, I’m not sure that coriander was detectable in any that I’ve tried. How much do you use and how detectable is it?
I was quite pleased! Second place medal. The first time I ever brewed it didn’t fair well but I sent the score sheet to a nationally ranked judge that really left great feedback and got a lot more insight for the second batch which obviously helped a LOT!
I use 3g of finely crushed fresh coriander seeds added at 10 minutes, not completely noticeable but you can just tell its present. Let us know how you’re turns out!
Yikes, 3 grams. I was going to use 14 grams and that was on the low end of what I’ve seen recommended. Some people recommend more than 28 grams for a 5 gallon batch!
No way I want to use 14 grams if 3 grams is even slightly noticeable.
I’ll definitely post my thoughts as I go through the process and my results.
There’s a lot of variables that go into determining spicing in these types of beer. Some people like them more aggressively spiced than others and that can play a tremendous role. Fresh versus powder can be a critical issue. Powder coriander is usually fairly old and has lost some of its potency by the time it is used. The type of coriander matters; Indian coriander is usually more potent than European coriander. Acidity will also play a role. The more sour the gose the more the spices will stand out in the same way adding acid to food brings out flavors. Three grams might be right for your beer but I would make sure I had more on hand to add if you find that volume is too light for your preferences.
Thank you for the response. I was trying to do a bit more research and planning before following up, and then got tied up brewing an APA last weekend, so sorry for the delay.
I think I’m going to shoot for a pH of somewhere about 3.6 or so. From what I can tell, that should be fairly tart in this style of beer without being completely mouth puckering. Any feedback on the pH from people with experience would be appreciated.
I’m going to start with 12 grams of pink sea salt.
As far as the coriander, I’m wondering if there is also a difference (besides the differences you noted) between roughly crushing and finely grounding the seed? A lot of the people mentioning 14 to 28 grams were roughly crushing the seed, while duboman uses 3 grams of finely crushed.
I am going to use high quality Indian coriander and probably doing a rough crush with a rolling pin.
Going for it this weekend!
Oh yeah, definitely decided on WY1007 for the finishing yeast.