I haven’t used Lallemand’s Köln yeast, but my understanding is that it’s a special case (as Frankenbrew mentioned) and its pitch rate is considerably higher than other Lallemand yeasts. I seem to recall a Lallemand rep saying as much. I don’t think you can make generalizations about a company’s entire product line (or even about an entire industry) based on that one product.
I never use Lallemand’s pitch calculator. One thing I noticed the first time I fiddled with it was that if the suggested pitch rate was even the tiniest bit higher than an even pack, it would bump up to the next full pack. I’m not sure whether it’s still like that, but I’m thinking it might be possible that OP’s suggested pitch rate was maybe something like 2.2 packs, and got bumped up to 3 packs. Just a thought.
One thing I like about dry yeast is that the pitch rates are so easy to convert to grams per liter of wort.
This has been my experience with 1 sachet of Köln. 500 ml vitality starter barely swirled with goferm protect evolution pitched after 4 hours into 22 liters of non aerated 1.046 wort. Down 8 points in the first 24 hours and down 24 points in the 48 hours. It’s a great yeast, nice esters, drops bright quick. The vitality starter is sop for dry yeast for me. I use freshly frozen wort, it adds no extra time or effort to my brew day.
I recently made a kölsch using the Köln dry yeast strain, and used a single (very slightly “expired”) 11g packet. No issues with fermentation, and it tastes splendid, at least to my palate. I’ll confess that is a single point of anecdata, though…
As a brief aside, I’ve tried both Köln and K-97 for my kölsch recipes, and prefer Köln. It seems to ferment just a touch cleaner, and flocculates more quickly. Anyone else have thoughts?
i found k-97 to be very clean ale tasting, but needs low to.mid 60s temps to attenuate properly and is the haziest/most stubbornly non-flocculant yeast i havr ever used. it would be good for hazy ipas imho but not much else. others dont like its flavour profile btw. its one of those weird old catqlogue yeasts like s-33 that just has major drawbacks and cant compete with really well rounded ones like diamond, bry97, etc
I agree with Denny. The yeast cells already have their sterols built up, as if oxygenation already occured. Also, by the time the yeast rehydrate and are able to absorb o2, the o2 you’ve put in the wort has already escaped.
If you want more cells, it’s as easy as pitching another pack. It’s really not that more expensive than growing more cells on your own. I am happy paying an extra 8 dollars a pack.
I did a Helles with s-189, and pitched 2 packs - came out great, and fermented out clean. I just brewed a amber lager with wyeast 2278, gave it a starter and pure o2. The dry yeast started showing signs of active fermentation a good 8-16 hour earlier than the liquid yeast.
Anyone who disparages dry yeast is just making it more difficult for themself.
Regarding the “ploy” - I don’t know how nefarious they are being. After all, they still offer a single packet. I can only imagine what it might be like to be tasked with writing the guidance for pitching rates for yeast- so much depends on so many factors- OG, temp, grist composition, what attenuation % you seek, etc. From their perspective, if everyone pitches 3 packs then they can’t blame the yeast manufacturer for a failed fermentation. I think they are just keeping it simple.
I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it’s kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.
One of my issues with White Labs is that they give you the bare minimum of cells in homebrew packs - but they give you x1.5 more cells in pro brew packs. wyeast smack packs are like that too, i bet you get even less than white labs - they say you get 100 million cells, but you’re actually buying less than that. I’m nitpicking here, they both have great strains. However, Imperial and Omega gives you more cells upfront.
I’m curious… When using a wyeast strain and building up a starter with it - do you wait until the pack inflates before using it in the starter or do you smack it and add it to the starter right away?
What is the “smack” anyways? Is that where the cells are and you break it open so it eats up the wort?
What the Smack?
ps- I do appreciate how starters are good to go when they’re pitched. They’ll just chow down on the o2 right away.
The Wyeast Smack Pack is a pouch with liquid yeast in it and an inner plastic pouch which is called a “nutrient pack”. It is wort, possibly with some extras in it. When you smack open that packet it releases the food into the yeast and they begin to grow. If you are pitching directly you can wait until the pack swells up and you know you are pitching active yeast. If you are making a starter I don’t think it matters if you smack open the nutrient pack and wait since you are providing your own source of nutrients.
wyeast nottingham $4, bry97 $4.99, whitelabs after a recent price increase - averaging about $15 and then i still need to build a starter. so it is a real difference for me, and even in the states i am pretty sure its not just 30 cents difference.
ive probably stated this before but one of the main reasons i use dry yeasts when i do is using 2 or 3 packs of bry97 or other yeasts to make a really big beer like an imperial stout around 1.100 because 1. dont have to brew a stepup beer 2. dont have to oxygenate (and invest in o2 tanks) to help the fermentation. i have had really good success with just planning big beers using 2 or 3 packs of yeast and it makes my brewing process much easier.
why i use liquid yeast is because there are more options out there and it may be bias, but i feel like i can get a better tasting beer in the liquid range i am comfortable with (1.04 up to 1.07) without additional oxygenation of wort especially in the styles that arent well represented by dry yeast equivalents.
im currently going to switch my liquid selection to escarpment labs and see how that goes. they, like most newer liquid yeast purveyors promise high >200mil i think cellcounts so i will try not using a starter potentially as well. their price range is still in the reasonable ~$11 range
When I worked at my LHBS in 1994, I remember explaining smack packs to customers. It is only until recently that some manufacturers have brought big pitches to the market.
I personally don’t want to commit to an 8 hour brew day for 10-15 gals of beer with some “magic beans”. When I pitch yeast those Lil devils better prove to me that they are chewing!!!
All excellent points.
But… one can grow a starter with dry yeast and meet all your criteria.
And… if you get your yeast for 30c per 5g of beer produced, please share your supplier.
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” - Sherlock Holmes (A. Conan Doyle)
Making a traditional starter with dry yeast will need oxygen in the fermenter, a vitality starter doesn’t need oxygen at all.
I should have been clearer about that. Goferm protect evolution costs about 30 cents per 5 gals to use and I use it in fresh frozen wort that I boil again when I make a vitality starter. I pay the same as everyone for yeast and the new white labs format is going to be about $15 at my LHBS.
interesting to note that this is going to be their thing going forward - “hey we can compete with the ~200 million cellcount thing that everyone else is doing… but we’re going to cost a lot more.” lol. what a shame. im simply buying from a regional liquid yeast supplier next brewbuy.