Apparently the rule is that you don’t need to make a starter when using dry yeast ( I never have) but I am shy 1 package. 15 gallon batch. 1.052 OG Need 3 packs but only have 2. Making 2 one liter SNS starters w/11g sachets. Anyone see a possible issue?
"Tis a myth! Go ahead and make a 1 liter vitality starter!
I use dry yeast starters almost all of the time for faster starts and cleaner ferments. I think the old myth not to do starters with dry yeasts evolved from the fact that it was generally cheaper to just use another packet. When using a dry yeast starter, keep in mind that you’re, for all intents and purposes, pitching liquid yeast so treat it as such.
It’s not a “myth.”
The problem with making a yeast starter with dry yeast isn’t that “you can’t do it”; it is the risk of making too small a starter and damaging the yeast. You probably need to start with a 2-gallon starter (1 gallon at the very smallest).
The nice thing about dry yeast is their glycogen reserves are “pre-stored” making them sort of “supercharged.” It’s the reason why, technically, you can pitch a lower cell count of dry yeast as opposed to liquid yeast.
1 package is probably not going to be enough for a 15G batch, so if you can’t afford 2+ or more packages, make a yeast starter. But be sure your starter volume is large enough or you could actually cause the yeast to be less healthy in the starter than they were coming out of the package.
I personally don’t know enough to make an informed decision on this issue.
Hopefully with more input a decisive verdict can be reached.
Following…
If the strain you’re using is sold thru Label Peeler’s, they’ll send a pack (or more) with no shipping cost thru the USPS. It takes a week or so but it solves the problem.
What I posted is the “decisive verdict” of dry yeast manufacturers. You can do whatever you want, but the science behind dry yeast is pretty clear.
“The nice thing about dry yeast is their glycogen reserves are “pre-stored” making them sort of “supercharged.” It’s the reason why, technically, you can pitch a lower cell count of dry yeast as opposed to liquid yeast”.
Correct me if I am mistaken on this, but one would not want to under-pitch a lager yeast, either dry or liquid. Ale yeasts would be fine to under-pitch if you are trying to coax certain characteristics from the yeast.
Pitching rates are only guidelines. The suggested pitching rates are “1 million cells, per milliliter, per degree Plato (about .004-SG).” That rate can go down to as low as 0.35 million cells per milliliter per degree Plato for ales, to as high as 2 million cells per milliliter per degreenPlato for lagers or high-gravity beers.
I’m not sure I’d want to go much lower than the lowest I mentioned above. It depends on a lot of factors. Its always better to over pitch a little than under pitch a lot – that goes for lager for ales.
I misread your original post. I think you will be fine just pitching what you have. I thought you said you had 1 package for 15 gallons. I think you would be far better just pitching what you have than making a starter.
I went ahead and made a 3L starter with the 2 packages. I will add notes to recipe compare with similar others and post what I experienced.
As long as you pitch active, I imagine you will be fine. But with a 3L starter with 2 packets of dry yeast, you will have no yeast growth and you will deplete all of the yeast’s reserves.
It’s still active, about 10 hours in since I made last night. Hopefully there is a short lag time if any at all. Definitely giving the wort a good dose of O2 prior to pitch.
Thanks, Keith. That’s the science.
Agreed, at that OG
THIS. People forget that cell count is not the be all, end all.
Help me understand.
Lets say a starter is created with dry yeast using propper starter, wort, or DME, and runs it’s course.
After yeast is done and sinks to the bottom, it is used for a batch of beer.
In another scenario the dry yeast is pitched directly into wort, and runs it’s course.
After yeast is done and sinks to the bottom, it is used for a batch of beer.
What am I missing ?
Thanks
For the starter to grow mass, it must have enough volume for the yeast to replicate. If the volume is too small, they do not create mass. IN the case of liquid yeast, where the yeast are using their reserves while they are in the yeast package (storage), a starter may help replenish those reserves if the nutrients are right, the aeration is plentiful, and the starter is large enough.
In the case of dry yeast, the yeast are in a state of stasis where their reserves are already in tact. By making a starter for dry yeast, the yeast use their reserves when pitched into the starter. If the starter is too small, they cannot replenish those reserves after the fermentation has taken place. They are actually left less healthy than they were going in. To compound the problem, since the starter was too small, they weren’t;t able to grow mass.
Excellent explanation.
What’s considered too small ?
Would 100 grams of DME, and 1 litre of water be too small for
5 gallons of 1.040 wort ?
Thanks