Well, there’s that too…truthfully I wish some craft brewery would try and just make a good simple Dupont-like Saison.
great thread because I brewed my first Saison yesterday using a recipe from NB (93% Castle Belgian Pale, 7% C-20). came out to 1.055 OG, I pitched some Belle at 65F and just left it in a 70F room. 24hours later it is fermenting madly at 74F (warmer than the ambient). I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do now… just let her run in the mid 70s for 3 weeks? I’m more of a German lager guy so this is all a bit new and counter-intuitive. (and then should I be crash cooling before transferring to kegs to carb? and how long should it “lager”?)
red
I think you are doing it right Red.
Yep, just let’r rip in the mid 70’s. My first 3724 Saison ended up in the upper 90’s towards the end of fermentation. It tasted great, till an infection became apparent weeks after I bottled it all. (Blowoff tube contaminated the batch)
When does the mythical stall rear up? or phrased better, when should I bother taking the first gravity test?
And how long does one age a Saison before drinking?
The stall comes with 3724. Since you used Belle you shouldn’t have to worry.
I like my saisons fresh, but they always taste better as the keg is running out. I’d say they’re at their best after three weeks in the keg.
I agree with Joe with the condition that fermentation temps are held low-ish. Saisons fermented above 76° need a couple of months to mellow out the fusel alcohols.
Great timing on this thread, as my next brew day is my third batch of a saison recipe I got from @AmandaK, and I have some of the same questions as Goschman. The recipe is pretty simple and I have loved it the first 2 times I brewed it:
9# Weyermann Pilsner
1# Weyermann Munich I
1oz Willamette to bitter
1oz Nelson @ 20
1oz Nelson @ Flameout
Originally just 3724, but will be using a blend of 3724 and 3711 per Jon’s suggestion for this batch
OG: 1.051, IBUs: 48, SRM: 4.4, ABV: 5.8-6+ depending on how the blend does
For this batch, I am doubling the size to 10 gallons and then will split for secondary. Half will get 7.5# crushed and frozen blackberries and the other half will get some fresh picked garden Lemon Balm. I really have no reason to change the grist at all, as like I said, I have liked the brew both times so far. My questions are as follows:
- With the secondary items, should I just go with the Willamette to bitter and skip the late and FO Nelson, or just possibly lower the amounts?
- Any thoughts on how much fresh picked (like the day of transfer) Lemon balm to use for 5 gallons less transfer loss?
- Would you change any of the hop varieties to help accentuate either the blackberries or the lemon balm? I have 20+# of random varieties on hand: I do have El Dorado, but no Lemon Drop. If its semi popular, I likely have some on hand
Anything anyone can offer would be great, thinking I should follow Jon’s suggestion above to lower or eliminate the late hop additions, at least for the blackberry version, at least until anyone has a different thought.
Sorry to semi/fully highjack Goschman
Hijack away. I think I got what I needed. Just need to make a decision regarding the amount of rye and possibly the hops.
Not trying to start a 3724 vs 3711 argument as that is obviously a personal preference.
69franx: how is that hop character at 48 IBUs? I have been going back and forth with the prospect of using basil/lemon or going hoppy instead.
Although it is way over style at 48.8 IBUs, only 21.2 come from the bittering charge, so to me it does not come off as overly bitter. When I first made it, it was the first saison I had made. It came out as I had expected, thus I have remade it 1x and again in 2 weeks. The Nelson at 20 minutes adds 27.6 IBUs, but with the Nelson character added that late, I really dont perceive too much bitterness from that charge.
I guess I am wondering most about whether or not the secondary ingredients will drown out the Nelson completely, making it easy to drop it from the recipe. In that case, I would likely up the Willamette to keep the IBUs up there to offset some of the sweetness from the blackberries. The lemon balm is just something we have growing in the garden after reading about someone adding it to a saison a couple years back. I really have no strong idea about what it will bring or how powerful it will be in the finished product, hence my questions. Just trying to learn something new everyday I guess
In my experience, if you are trying to highlight a particular flavor I would back off or remove the late hops. I would likely remove the Nelson @ flameout. I am basically in the same predicament which is why I chose willamette and centennial in smaller amounts at the end of the boil than originally planned. Take my advice with a grain of salt since I have no experience with those hops or secondary ingredients. Sounds like nelson could work well with fruit and lemon balm and someone can likely chime regarding that.
Often, I want to brew a beer that achieves several things and encompasses the ideas of what should be 3 different beers but in the end (with a few exceptions) it usually ends up more muddled. For some reason, I think I can somehow brew a hoppy saison with lemon and basil but in the end I realize that is probably not a good idea…
What about water profile for a saison. Thinking yellow balanced with mash pH of 5.3
I use yellow balanced @ 5.2-5.25 pH. The lower mash pH gives a slightly tart, crisp finish that goes great with the style IMO.
Thanks. I figured that was the case. I don’t think I have gone below 5.3 yet so I guess this would be a good opportunity.
I have used Jon’s advice on my saison before and loved the results, was right around 5.25
Jon, any thoughts on my hop schedule above with fruit or herbs in secondary?
The IBU sound high for saison, but if you’ve brewed it and like it, that’s all that matters. Personally, I wouldn’t go too heavy with late hops in a saison with fruit/herbs in the recipe. I like to leave room for the saison yeast character to shine, but if the late hops sound good here, go for it!
Thanks again Jon
Agreed. A saison is a saison largely because of the yeast character coming through the beer. As has been mentioned previously - doing too many things in one beer makes for muddle. If I were to go the route of fruit and herbs with a saison - I wouldn’t add any late hops, just a bittering charge.
Thanks all, gonna just go with a bittering charge for this batch