Anyone experimented with this strain yet?
I just ordered a brick of this to try out. Will post results in the next few weeks.
I’d be interested to hear how it performs.
I asked about it at the LHBS a couple weeks back, but they had no reports and didn’t seem to be aware of the difficulties associated with WY3724 which made me suspect of any recommendation they might give for saisons.
I’m curious to hear also. I teach classes at the LHBS, and they just asked me to use this to make a saison at my next class as a test of the flavor profile.
This yeast is a BEAST so far… from 62F - 68F in 36 hours, still fermenting away at 70F (I pitched on Sunday night).
The recipe was an uber-simple saison:
1.060 OG. 70/30 Belgian Pils to flaked wheat as a base, a touch of aromatic, and 1 lb of honey (~15% of total fermentables). 40BUs Apollo at 60 min. No late hops.
Rehydrated one packet (per Danstar’s instructions) and pitched. Shook to aerate. Placed in ferm. chamber with cooling set to 72F.
I normally don’t just let the fermentation temp go (at least through the first 48 hours), but that’s what a lot of brewers advice on saison yeast. I’ve heard of many homebrewers taking the same approach, whether they are taking cues from the pros or simply dont have temp control and brew saisons in the summer.
Either way - it should be a good test of this yeast’s attenuation ability and flavor profile. Updates coming.
Thanks Kyle, really looking forward to your updates!
Yes. Please let us know if you get the dreaded 1.03 stall.
An update:
Altogether, this was a good first run. The yeast chewed through the beer in about a week, attenuating to 1.005.
The flavor profile is dominated by clove-like phenols, which may be due to the high wheat content. These flavors (and the high IBUs) overpower orange notes, along with a touch of strawberry and black pepper.
The phenols, bitterness, and flavor of the wheat are the major flaws with this beer, all of which I believe can be improved with recipe/process tweaks (100% barley malt, lower bittering charge, higher pitch temp).
I have one more packet and will try this yeast again, with the proposed changes. I think, for now, this yeast has proven itself as an excellent attenuator and a viable backup to more finicky strains.
I picked up a pouch of this yeast and will be brewing a more classic saison with it in the next month or so. In order to define the ester characteristics for this yeast at typical saison ferment temperatures, I will use a rather simple recipe consisting of 95% pilsner malt, 5% wheat malt, 30 IBUs of Saaz.
40BUs is pretty gnarly, but I think part of that is the high-alpha variety. Maybe I’ll use Saaz, but you just have to use so damn much of the stuff!
I usually have at least couple of pounds of noble hops of around, so that’s just my preference.
IMO if you are using low alpha hops for buttering you are wasting hops and wort. There’s not going to be much flavor left after a 60 minute boil and the amount of wort absorption becomes significant.
I’ve always had this mindset as well, and I use Apollo/Warrior for bittering in every beer. I was surprised at the harshness in this beer at 40 ibu. If I reduce the Apollo by half, I think I’ll be good to go.
In future saisons, I was thinking about using Saaz/Styr Goldings throughout, with good-sized additions at FWH, 30, 15, and after KO.
IMO American high alpha hops do not work well in European beers. I have used Magnum in the past for bittering and I think it works really well, but I just don’t make enough beer over the year to justify a pound of it. My American styles will use Columbus and Chinook for bittering and that’s fine for an American ale style. Now that you’re pro Keith, you will look at things differently than I do and that’s OK. Money’s not a big driver for me as far as brewing is concerned, so I tend to stick more to tradition.
In my very limited experience with this yeast, if you just let it ramp up and go, it will blow past the phenolic stage. The fruityness is much more pronounced at temperatures over 75F. You also seem to need to follow their pitching rate guidelines. I effectively turned off the jacket on our fermenter when I pitched this and it went up from 68, topping out at around 85 before hitting terminal gravity and falling back down on its own.
I really enjoy Belgian beers, but have had only marginal success with the few I have brewed. Primarily it has been a lack of the esters and phenols I wanted, and I assume it was because I fermented too cool. The primary reason I am hesitant to ferment warmer is that I want to minimize production of fusel alcohols. So my question is, is this something I should concern myself with, or does Belgian yeast not produce as much fusel alc. at higher temps like other ale yeasts?
I’ve actually never tried a high alpha American hop in European style beers so I can’t comment but I’ve used magnum for a long, long time and for those styles I think it works best. Less hop and vegal matter in bk. but that’s just me.
Errr … sorry for the hijack boys and thanks for the feedback on the strain. Looking forward to using it soon.
Steve - I’m not sure of the science behind it, but I’ve done a couple of Belgian beers which I started ferment temps in the mid 60s and let it ramp up to 78-80 by the time “active” fermentation was over. These beers came out great and had no presence of any fusels. The yeast I have done this with is 3711 and 3787.
Kyle - thanks for the feedback on the strain, gonna grab some and try it out soon.
“Brew Like A Monk,” IIRC, says Belgian ale yeasts produce less fusels than ale yeasts. It recounts that a Trappist monastery will allow fermentation temps hit the high 80s (possibly low 90s) although fermentation temps that high are not the norm.
Correct. But I believe they are pitching at normal ale temps (low 60s or so) and letting it ramp up from there. I think you’d need to be fermenting the entire time in the high 70s or above to really get a fusel bomb. I had 10 gallons of wheat hit 78 last summer before I got it cooled back down and the beer did not seem to suffer unduly from the high temp. No big headaches. No fusel flavors. And I was quite paranoid about it. Regardless of that experience, I would not recommend high temps. For Belgians, I would pitch low, keep it low for 48 or so and then let it go where it wants to.