Grain for a classic German Pils?

Brewing Processes
61

Okay…

It comes down to these -
Avangard Premium Pils Malt
Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt

If you were brewing a North German style beer, like a Bitburger, which malt would you choose?
And, would you use this for 100% of the grain bill?
I might add 10% Irecks Vienna.

62

As stated prior bitburger uses 2 malts. Pils being one, and Vienna not being the other. They also malt their own grain so, can’t answer that Pilsner question. Also they decoct.

63

Ok. The target is a classic Pale Bitter North German Pils. Not trying to clone Bitburger, just using that as an example. Veltins could be another example. Another good one is Krombacher, situated in Westfalia, using local soft low mineral mountain spring water.

64

I am not a fan of weyerman floor malted Pilsner. I like their other pils malt just fine. The floor malted has a flavor that reminds me of diacetyl. I know that sounds like a silly thing to say but I’ve brewed with it enough to pick out the flavor everytime.

65

actually bitburger is in the southern geographic 50% of germany and very close to belgium. maybe they are a belgian influenced style pilsner?

i kind of get belgian notes sometimes with them.

66

Boy, I really doubt it.

67

To be blunt, this is bizarre! I can’t drink Belgian beer, but I can (and do) drink Bitburger! Not even close to anything Belgian. But…that’s just me.

68

Here in Silicon Valley a Bitburger is the sandwich that the tech companies serve for lunch in the company cafeteria :wink:

69

to drink belgian beer, you pour it into a glass and hold the glass up to your lips.

bitburger is from maybe ~50km away from belgium and just 15km away from luxembourg.

70

Yes, we made the trip to Brussels. Went to a nice brewpub, sampled multiple beers. All drinkable. Not my favorite.

71

None of those beers will use a single malt, or any Pils malt you can get. Also they are decocted  :wink:

There’s a theme here.

72

I think a simple grist comprised of 50% German Pils Malt and 50% German (or other continental origin) pale 2 row malt might be a reasonable starting point and then adjust by batch from there to get to your desired result.  I typically throw in some acidulated malt as part of the 2 row composition, for pH adjustment.  Decoction doesn’t seem to make a huge difference in my experience, but others contend that it is vital.  Some add melanoiden malt, instead.

Good luck on your journey - I hope you experience good beer along the way, regardless of whether you get to the exact result you seek.

73

Can you say which large industrial German brewers still decoct?

74

I think the decoction conclusion is based on Bitburger’s website which states the following relative to its mashing regime:

“Part of the mash is heated in a mash tun to fine-tune the flavour, colour and level of sweetness.”

Perhaps that is just referencing a step mash, rather than a true decoction…I can’t say that it is definitive by any means.

75

There are many references to breweries that don’t decoct their light colored beer. Saves energy.

76

When we toured the Hofbrau Brewery, they said the mash was a step infusion mash. Not decoction.

77

i am very on the fence about decocting at the homebrewing level, at least for my sake.

i made two good beers with it earlier on, and it isnt that much more difficult than a normal mash.

however, in many tests homebrewers claim that there is no discernible difference between decoct. and non-decocted. and it does take notable longer than a regular mash.

time is the critical factor for my homebrewing nowadays, so its not likely i’d bother again but i definitely want to try it.

do industrial brewers decoct? i could imagine many potentially easier things they could do to increase melanoidins in the beer (heck, homebrewers too). longer boil, adding a portion of intensely boiled wort to the main wort, adding melanoidin rich malts to the grist, etc.

i think decoction’s real place was to be a historical way to fairly accurately hit important temperature ranges without the calculators/thermometres we have now.

78

I’m with Jeff.  Although I havent done extensive research, a cursory examination leads me to nelieve there are few who decoct.  If I’m wrong, Id love to see some numbers and names.

79

Thanks. Looking at some possible combos…

Avangard + Weyermann Pilsner

Ireks Pale + Weyermann Pilsner

Ireks Pale + Avangard Premium Pils

Weyermann Pilsner + Weyermann Floor Malted Bo-Pils

Or maybe this:

17 lbs Avangard Premium Pils Malt
2 lbs Ireks Pale Malt

edit: The goal is to enter this beer in the Pale Bitter European Lager category, in an upcoming competition. German Pils, 5D.

80

Bitburger and the larger breweries in Germany definitely have done away with decoction. Kunze sites a typical hochkurz step infusion mash whilst keeping the oxygen out of any step of the process. As far as decoction goes, I think we can all agree that it is still a part of Pilsner Urquell’s process.

For grain in a German pilsner, I’d go with Weyermann Barke Pils or Best Malz pils. I think Best Malz pils is my favorite. I’m still searching for a good American pils malt for freshness and it being more local. I had some Weyermann Bohemian Pils and I didn’t like it. It just didn’t have that nice crackery malty flavor that I want in German styles.