I am not the holder of that information, so I can’t. But the holders of that information are at themodernbrewhouse.com. There are many posts about who and who is not decocting, and what beers styles they are doing (or not doing it with).
Of the beers listed in this thread though (Bitburger, Krombacher for instance) 100% do. I have seen the posts from directly from the brewmasters.
In my own travels around Germany there are ones that decoct their beers, ones that do certain beers, and ones that don’t.
Schönram does, but they switched from Weyermann to a local malt that is less modified. Brauerie Eck in Niederbayern decocts their Dunkel and uses mat from a small maltster near Regensburg. Ayinger is said to not decoct the light biers, but they do for the dark beers and wheat beers.
It may be tradition and what they can do on the brewing system they have.
I sent Bit a note to ask is they decoct their Pils.
“Hello
we look forward to hearing from you and will immediately forward your inquiry to the responsible department. An employee will then contact you shortly.
Thank you very much for contacting us with your request. We wish you a pleasant day.
Best regards
Your Bitburger Team
This is a system generated message.
BITBURGER BRAUGRUPPE GmbH
Römermauer 3 | D-54634 Bitburg
Phone: 06561 14-0 | E-Mail: info@bitburger.de “
My base malt for many of my beers is a 70-30 blend of Avangard Pils and a continental pale ale malt (I’m currently using Swaen Pale Ale, but I have used Castle in the past). It is worth trying out a blend in a pale lager grist some time if you haven’t tried it before.
And that’s what we will do next Monday. BBD…Big Brew Day!
This is another controversy that can be solved by simply asking the source. It might not fit the narrative but it’s fairly easy to do and puts to bed the ‘Bro Science’ that proliferates thru speculation.
Bitburger’s reply:
“Thank you for your email and your interest in Bitburger.
We use for Bitburger Premium Pilsner a classical decoction mashing regime (2 step) which is adapted to our malt quality. The aim of our mashing regime is to create a wort with an optimal composition (in means of nutrients for the yeast) for good fermentation and to fix the fermentability of the wort. One key parameter of our beer and its drinkability is the ratio of residual extract (attenuation) and bitterness.
Kind regards,
Doreen Tietze”
Excellent info! Thanks for taking the time to ask them. I know Annie swears by decoction. Since she’s the PU Master Homebrewer, I pay attention whether I actually do it or not.
Since we have gone down this “rabbit hole”, decoction mashing is something we have done, but it is rare. But we always do multi-step infusion.
Example: 122 F with a 30 minute rest, 145 F with 30 min. rest, 158 F and 30 min rest, mash out at 172 F.
It is rare today that a large scale brewery does decoction. As stated, the Hofbrau Brewery does an infusion. I believe that Spaten does this also, but can’t recall for certain.
I may do a decoction next week…maybe.
I do decoction once or twice a year just to see if I’ve missed anything and there’s a reason to do them. So far, I haven’t convinced myself.
This may be of interest…
Obviously we think decoction is well worth the time and effort. Two of the best examples of Bavarian helles I have had are from Andechs and Augustiner. I have toured both breweries, and both use decoction mashing.
The effects of a single decoction on our Helles (1.050 OG, 22 IBU, 95% Pils, 5% Vienna malt) produce an intangible depth of character with the bread and honey malt flavors. Few brewers describe their normal gravity, golden-colored lager as malty. The combination of German malts and decoction mashing create a golden lager that I like to describe as rich, velvety, round, and complex. That’s what decoction does — in subtle ways.
why “obviously”. maybe decoction does have an effect (extremely subtle albeit, since many tests out there disagree that it causes substantive effects), but im saying that effect can be replicated by several much easier methods. ie. melanoidin rich grains, longer boil, boiling down a percentage of wort, etc. maybe even simply crystal malt.
heck even that boiling down wort “caramelizing it” has been disproven.
also lots of brewers describe a golden lager as malty. like a LOT.
Should have mentioned the source…
The above was quoted from a brewery in Kansas City that does decoction mashes for their beers.
Which brewery?
Kansas City Bier Company
Maybe, maybe not…one of the first experiments I did was to have homebrewers from around the world brew the same recipe in decocted and infused versions. The resukts did not point to decocted beers being preferred. Of course, that’s just a data point. My conclusion was that sometimes the effects of decoction are confirmation bias.
I do something similar for a lot of my Belgian-style ales (blending Weyermann pils with Castle or Dingeman’s pale). It’s worth playing around with.
Do all of you suggest this malt blending for a pale, bitter German Pils?
I had a beer Czech Pils judged by a Grand Master and the brewermaster of P.U. take second place in a regional competition for the style. They told me that my beer needed a little more “malt complexity.” I have since made the beer a few times by using two different continental Pilsner malts in the recipe. I think it helps with that elusive malt complexity. I like Best and Floor malted Weyerman.
I prefer 100% Pilsner but I like really dry bitter pils
I will go with a 50/50 blend of Avangard Premium Pils, and Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pils.
In the future we plan to experiment using a small amount of Pale malt with the mix.