Wonder how this will go. I’d put my faith in Whitelabs considering contamination sources are high in production breweries, but they have credibility issues after the Sacc Trois and reported Sacc contamination’s in their Brett. That strain is a nightmare strain as it can covert starch on its own. If it did come from Whitelabs, they may have a big issue.
Interesting, Stevis. I’ve never heard of that particular strain of yeast. It seems like White Labs would be on top of their production, but there’s not enough info in that article to really make a judgment call. It will be interesting to see how this shakes down.
Wow, hadn’t heard. I’m curious to see how this plays out. I agree the Sacc Trois fiasco comes to mind. But though Left Hand hasn’t had any more issues since switching yeast vendors, who’s to say that wasn’t from a likely thorough sanitizing of the brewery? Seems a tough one to prove. OTOH I’m not an expert on diastaticus either.
I just remember Mark V talking about it.
ETA - found it
First high gravity attempt
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=40079&share_tid=19879&share_pid=252825&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.homebrewersassociation.org%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D19879.msg252825%23msg252825&share_type=t
We just started testing for diastaticus… it is nasty stuff… but it’s also considered a “saccharomyces wild yeast”. It comes from the air and the environment, I don’t think anyone cultures it (to my knowledge, I’m sure I’m wrong).
I wouldn’t doubt that it may have come from White Labs, but I think they are going to have a really, really hard time proving it…
From what I’ve read elsewhere they identified the unwelcomed guest in unused pitches from white labs that matched what was found in beers after the fact.
Doesn’t really play into the lawsuit at all, but I’m surprised that a brewery of Left Hand’s size isn’t managing their own yeast…
I’m not, but they should have a QC person/microbiologist checking every point in the prices.
FWIW, this is not the first time the finger has been pointed at White Labs for this.
The last two days have been educational. Many web searches later, I have more understanding of this yeast strain. Some say 3711 is of this type, maybe most Saison yeasts. Have you ever asked yourself how does ir reach those crazy low finishing gravitates? These yeasts look like normal brewers yeast under the microscope. They can be detected through DNA tests. They grow slowly at normal beer temps. If the beer is warm, on the shelf, they grow faster. They have a Belgian phenolic character. Those last two are Saison like characters. The yeast excrete an enzyme that breaks the starch down to sugars externally, then the sugars are absorbed by the yeast.
It turns out Bell’s did a MBAA presentation a while back,mas they had an issue. The presentation is in the BA members area. They were said to have clued in Goose Island to their problem with BCS, when I was on a brewery tour.
If you want to fall down a rabbit hole, search on “Bell’s Diastaticus”
Hey, Belle Saison is one of these critters. Some say it is dry 3711.
http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/product-details/belle-saison-beer-yeast/
ProBrewer
The craziness we will learn with all the new DNA testing.
Agreed.
Edit. - Mark also said that Iodophors or beach are broad spectrum, and will kill yeast and Brett. Heat is another strategy for materials that can endure it.
If you use Brett or Saison yeasts, it would be prudent to give a sanitizing cycle with something besides Star San.
Kind of tough to claim lost market share when many established breweries are losing market share to newer craft breweries. If be interested to hear of there were any factors that lead to it affecting so many batches, but we probably won’t get that part of the story. Hopefully they reach a settlement that works well for both companies.
No doubt. I’ve been using iodophor for fermenters, kegs and any yeast handling, but not racking equipment.
IME, a solely acid-based sanitizer can’t be relied on to give brewery-level sanitation (let’s say 4σ) even for Saccharomyces spp.
+1
Unfortunately it has happened with Wyeast too. Tom Schmidlin and I had the exact same problem with the exact same strain and the nexact same time that we corroborated about at the CBC this year. That problem cost the company over $50K (easily) in dumped product and an untold amount in falling sales from that particular beer. Another time I had an overnight pitch from Wyeast show up DOA and they refused to replace or refund it. Surprised Left Hand doesn’t have a sophisticated enough yeast lab to plate/slant and grow up their own strains.
I guess this all negates their term “Pure Pitch”.
I still use White Labs and Wyeast without fear.
Wow… that makes it a little more cut and dry… yikes.