I am not sure if this goes here or not, but here goes. I have mostly done ales and IPA’s but with the addition of my new fermentation fridge I want to give a lager or a pilsner a try. I have a recipe that seems pretty simple and I have most of the items needed already. The one thing I am not too sure of is lagering. When it says to lager at let’s say 35 degrees, do I transfer to my keg before and lager in the keg? Or can I lager in the fermenter bucket before transferring to the keg or bottles? Also, once in the keg, do I start to carbonate during the lagering period? The recipe I have says to ferment for 3 weeks at 50 degrees and then lager for another 3 weeks at 35. Another question is, it is a 5 gallon batch, and the recipe calls for 2 packets of Safale w34/70. Is two packets needed? I have always just done one. I don’t mind buying the second one if needed, just like I said, this is my first try and I am not very familiar with how this all works. Any input is appreciated.
Lagering can be done while the beer is in the fermenter, or in the final package. It is simply a period of cold-conditioning post-fermentation for the beer to clear up and mature. When I was bottling my beer, i would bottle and store warm for 3 weeks so the yeast could carbonate the beer, then put them in the fridge to lager in the bottles. With kegs, I find it easiest to transfer the beer to the keg and lager in the keg. And you can absolutely force-carbonate your beer while its lagering in the keg. This lets you take samples from time to time to check to see if the beer is ready.
I’m typically lagering in the keg because I want to get my hands on the yeast and brew another batch. Lagering can be done anywhere, really. Also, for a lager … I like to let it go at the cooler temp (50° or so) for 4-5 days and then move the fermenter somewhere slightly warmer so that it will finish up strong. No off-flavors will be created during the late stages of fermentation. Also, I like when you look at a yeast description and it shows what styles the yeast is good for and it says “Pilsner. Lager. Helles.”, etc. Pilsner IS a lager. In your post you said “ales and IPA” which is redundant. IPA is ale. If you saw a big chart of styles, at the top of the chart it would say BEER with two lines coming out and on one side there would be ALE and the other side LAGER and then each style under each of those. In the day many homebrewers would suggest that making a lager was complicated and likely not to come out very good. I probably make 80-90% lagers and they’re not complicated. A little different but not complicated.
The word lager simply means to store or storage. it is nothing mysterious just put it aside for a while. I transfer from fermenter to keg and lager in my keezer.
I had the good fortune of sitting down with Greg Noonan at his place in Vermont and we talked for about 90 minutes about brewing. A homebrewing highlight for sure. He told me that brewers are leaving their lagers in the fermenter for too long because the misconception was that everything happened slowly and so 2-3 weeks in the fermenter was needed. It’s not. 4-5 days at the cool temp and another 3-4 at room temp and you’re good. There are variables but as long as the gravity is where you want it, you’re ready for the lager phase.
Thanks for the info guys. I appreciate it. Gonna take it all in and see where it takes me. I am looking forward to it as it will be a new style for me.
Village Taphouse, I am very aware that IPA is an ale. LOL. Hence the name, India Pale Ale. LOL. Was just trying to point out that ale’s have been, for the most part, my experience so far. I am going to check on doing a Helles style as well, as I had one of those recently and really liked it. So, once again, thank you to all who replied and those who are going to reply in the future. All this info is helpful.
I don’t think anyone answered your two packs of yeast question. Because of the cold fermentation temperature more yeast is typically pitched than for ales.
I’ve gotten good results with only one, but it makes me nervous so I almost always use 2.
I lager in the keg. I try to baby my old fermentation fridge so I keep it around 55-65°F (55° Lager/65° Ale). I xfer to a keg and cold crash in the freezer section of a side by side. I serve from the refrigerator section.
I keep all beers under CO2 pressure from the minute it’s xferred into the keg until the keg is empty.
I prefer 55°F and ferment until the beer is finished fermenting (lagers are more like 7 or so days) then raise the temp to 65°F 2-3 days then keg. When it’s done it’s done. No need to sit in the fermenter longer than required.
I lager until the beer is ready and I need the keg. It could be three weeks. It could be two or four or more.
IOW, I don’t follow strict X week instructions. I let the beer determine that stuff
Could be. I prefer to use volume, temp, and gravity of the beer I am brewing to determine yeast recommendations. If the recommendation is 24 grams I’d probably be fine with 22. …but if the mfr recommended 30 I would not be fine with 22 grams. Your call where you draw the line.
Anymore, I make sure to pitch a good, healthy dose of yeast (for a somewhat high ABV lager, I use 3 small ladle scoops from the slurry for a 5 gallon batch - maybe a pint in total or 2 packets of dry yeast, 1 packet if it is a low gravity lager). That results in completed fermentation within 5 days or so (I use a Tilt hydrometer and note no further movement in gravity over 3 days), then after a 5 days to a week from brew day, I usually cold crash the beer. It is partially carbonated by spunding the last bit of fermentation (again, using the Tilt for rough reference of progress). I also usually ferment under 10-12 psi using a spunding valve (not a mandatory thing by any stretch).
A day or so after cold crashing, I rack and harvest and re-pitch the yeast (typically coordinated with a brewday).
Do I ever let it sit longer? Sure, especially if I am unable to rack on a timely basis. I don’t sweat it any more - it’s only beer and it is pretty hardy. Cheers and good luck with your lagers; they are worth the effort for me.
You should remove the yeast from the finished beer before lagering. You run the risk of yeast autolysis after 30 days. Ferment to completion, should be terminal in less than 3 weeks, probably 2 weeks. Then cold crash it at or about freezing for 1 week. Transfer to your keg, hit with some CO2 to set the lid, then let it lager for 4-6 weeks at close to freezing.
You could probably get by with 1 package of yeast but you want to get fermentation going rather quickly so I recommend 2 packages. FWIW, I usually ferment 34/70 around 48-50*
Lets us know how it turns out!
Not much difference between Ales and Lagers except that most lager strains produce diacetyl.
Make your beer, and ferment at the recommended temperature - but be sure to increase the temp by about 5 or 8 degrees at the tail end of fermentation. Typically, I let mine ferment for about a week and a half - bump up the temp - and let it go for at least a week. Since we are talking about homebrew, give it 2 weeks.
Crash it as cold as you can without letting it freeze. Let the yeast drop out, and keg it. More yeast will drop out in the keg, but you can carbonate it. In about 4 or 5 more weeks, it should be at its peak.
Most critical part is giving it a diacetyl rest. You can explore pH, water chemistry, and pure o2 to improve your process (but they all require more equipment).
since you’re fermenting cold - more yeast is helpful. If you can’t do a yeast starter, i’d recomend 2 or 3 dry yeast packs.
You can also use the “Fast Lager” process described here: Fast Lager Yeast Fermentations - American Homebrewers Association
This process starts cold, then progressively increases the temperature to speed the process along.
In no way am I trying to be an antagonist but why does anyone need to speed the process along? Unless of course one is a commercial brewer.
Say you’ve had a bug that you didn’t know about until a few kegs were infected. After a deep clean, you may need to hurry along a beer or two to meet a certain timeline.
…or a lager loving friend, not realizing how long the timeline is, asked you supply a keg to the special occasion.
…or you just don’t want to wait.
I can think of several scenarios where a quick turn might need to happen to fill a void.
Lager and Ale strains both produce the diacetyl precursor
When the precursor oxidizes outside the yeast cell it becomes diacetyl. The yeast can then absorb the diacetyl and reduce it to a compound that is not offensive. The ale yeast reabsorb faster due to more activity at higher ale temperatures.
Why not? There’s more than one way to brew.
I have limited space. I can only ferment one batch at a time and can only store one batch at a time in kegs. If it takes me 3 months to make a batch then I can only brew 4 times a year. If I can turn it around in 1 month, then I can brew 12 times a year.
Welp, that is a very good reason and I stand corrected!! LOL! Cheers!
For sure. Trying brewing an English ale with S-04. Whoo boy. You have to be on your toes with many English strains … bring the temp up near the end of fermentation and if possible, sample from the fermenter prior to chilling.
Another positive on the lagers: All yeast strains have their character and when you brew mostly ales and experience what they have to offer, you can look forward to all the amazing characteristics of lager yeast strains. 2308, 2124, Omega Bayern, White Labs 940 … so many flavors from so many varied lager strains. It’s what drives me to continue making lager beer. Cheers Beerheads.