Old Extract?

Brewing Processes
1

Recently, I brewed an extract batch using LME (pale/gold and munich).  When we opened up the extract, both the pale and the munich LME had a very noticeable molasses-like aroma too it and was a lot darker than we anticipated.  We were shooting for a very light colored pale ale and wound up with something very red.  The molasses/syrupy character also appears in the finished beer.  Since switching to all grain brewing, I haven’t used extract for many years and I have long since forgotten what extract should smell like.  Does this sound like it was old extract?  Thanks very much,

Wes

2

It sounds like it to me.  That’s why I use DME when I use extract.

3

+1

4

Regardless of the age, I find that LME always results in a darker beer than I had intended (unless it was to be a dark beer, regardless).

I used pale ale LME recently, and my tripel looks like a dubbel.

5

I find this to be the case as well.

6

Thanks, guys.  I can handle the color.  But the stale, molasses/syrup thing is no good.  Funny thing, I bought it from a place that touts their high turnover on extract, ensuring that they provide the freshest.  Switching to DME for any future extract beers.

7

I recall someone on TechTalk years ago (I want to say it was John Blichmann) had done some tests using old cans of extract.

My recollection is that over pitching the yeast for some reason reduced the off flavors from stale extract.

I could probably search my archives for it, but I’m pretty certain my recollection is correct.

Not that I am recommending using old extract, but if you need to you can minimize the badness.

8

Pretty sure it was Dan Listermann.

9

I think you are correct.  Both end in -mann, so I was kinda close.

10

DME is always the better choice. I don’t know about your local homebrew shop but at mine theyre the same price so if I follow a recipe with LME then I just switch it to DME 3.3 lme = 3lbs DME the .3 is all water weight

11

Did the same recipe today substituting DME for the LME and what a difference that made.  My pale ale is actually pale, instead of the red ale the LME gave me.  Smelled much more like my all grain batches, too.  Thanks, everyone, for the tip.

By the way, on the last beer I made with the LME, the molasses character in the LME carried over into the finished beer.  Way too thick, sweet and with a flavor and aroma of molasses/syrup.  Dumper batch.  Not doing LME again.

12

I would like to switch to DME but my go LHBS charges double for DME vs LME

3lbs LME- $7.50, 3lbs DME $15

13

Yes unfortunately some (actually most i believe) brew shops charge more for DME. I’m sure if you really want to cut out the LME then you can find some cheap DME online

14

I’d guess that the DME oxidation/aging causes the wort to underattenuate and pitching plenty of yeast helps bump the attenuation back up. It would also minimize esters, etc which might exagerate mollasses/caramel flavors.

15

pitching lots of yeast is an interesting idea. It’s possible that the yeast adsorbs some of the flavors.

I saw something similar in this patent for low calorie beer: http://www.google.com/patents?id=InU8AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

One of the methods in this patent is a low pitching rate such that the extended yeast growth absorbs unwanted flavors:

Kai

16

I noticed that northern brewer charges about $11 for both LME and DME for 3lbs. but i think by the time i ship it here it would be the same price as my LHBS. For now i will stick with LME and deal with darker beers until i can progress to all-grain some day

17

Doesn’t DME work out to be cheaper per gravity point because there’s no water in it?

18

That’s how it has always worked out for me.  But I understand pricing varies widely.

I use LOTS of DME and by far the most economical purchase I can make is a 50lb bag of DME from Northern Brewer.  But I live in the mid-west, so shipping isn’t too bad.

Shipping for LME is also more per gravity point…

Elsewhere, I’m sure you want to get it closer to home.

I try to buy at the LHBS, but $1 or more per lb of extract adds up.

19

Curious. I always believed DME to be a better deal, but at my LHBS DME is $4.99/# and LME is $2.50/#. So to make a 1.045 six gallon batch it will cost $29.94 with DME (6#) and $18.75 with LME (7.5#).

20

In our shop we go through around 700 lbs of LME a month and we have no darkening or molasses at all. One of the things you also have to pay attention to is where the LME is coming from. We use Briess currently although we are switching to United Canadian. We get Briess that has been manufactured less than a month old. So for us from manufacturing date to being sold to you is less than 2 months. If we were to buy Muntons, the best case scenario we could get was most likely 6 months old. We also only sell 3 types of LME ( Pilsen or extra light, Wheat, and Munich). Our Munich and wheat sell less so we buy smaller containers of them so that is still stays fresh.
DME costs close to twice as much wholesale and is a pain to work with. 
Also the ration LME to DME is 6 lbs LME = 4.92 lbs DME.