Hey, I’m doing mostly extract batches with small 1-2pound partial mashes. I seem to get pretty poor efficiency from the initial steeping grains. I just got a water report, which showed calcium=3, Mg=1, total hardness=12. I’m not sure if the pH strips are accurate or not, but they seemed to show fairly acidic (like in the 4.0 range). Is my soft water causing me to get poor efficiency? Does this really matter since the bulk of the gravity comes from the malt extract? I’ve also had some issues getting a reliable thermometer, so this might be part of the issue as well. Do I need to adjust my water?
What is your full water report and what are the units? You are unclear about the the water you are testing with the pH strips. It is pretty unlikely that drinking water or the mash would have a pH of 4.0, but perhaps if you are using just mashing dark grains I suppose that the pH would be low. What is the grain bill for the partial mashes that have a pH of around 4.0?
It’s possible that it’s your water, but there are other things to consider. Small mashes usually have poorer efficiency. Efficiency is mainly related to the quality of the crush. What grains are you mashing?
The Congress mash uses distiller water. The malt is milled to a fine flour. Most efficiency comes back to the Congress mash numbers for that batch of malt, IIRC.
Breweries with a mash press can equal or exceed the Congress Mash numbers. They also use a hammer mill on the grain, to make flour.
What grains are you mashing/steeping? Also what is your OG and how much extract are you using? This information would be helpful in determining whether you really have an issue. For instance 7 lbs. of pale liquid extract in 5 gallons should give you ~ OG of 1.050. Adding a pound of crystal 20 may only bump it up to 1.051.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting this but are you actually mashing the grains or simply steeping in 170 degree water? If just steeping you really won’t get much gravity contribution from the grain, mostly flavor and color.
How are you calculating your efficiency? Are you concerned because your OG readings are off? This is usually due to a poor mix of top off water and wort which is common. If so, the stated OG of the recipe is what it should be assuming you hit your volumes correctly.
A little more info will help 
Clarify for me your distinction here between “mashing” and “steeping.” Time? Temp?
I “steep” my grains for 60 minutes at about 150 and get plenty of conversion.
I’ve always considered the term steeping to mean like making a tea and in extract batches steeping usually is prescribed for 30 minutes. As I said, there might be some contribution to gravity in that process but not much, most being the extract.
In your example I would use the term “mash” as my main purpose is to achieve proper conversion of the grain as in mashing my grain;)
I was being an ass, I know, but but other than time (and of course the specific grains) there’s very little real difference between steeping and BIAB.
Regardless, I don’t think the OP is using enough grain to get a significant gravity impact unless it’s a really small batch.
No worries Joe;)
I agree…
I think it has to do with poor mix of wort and top off but that’s what I’m trying to clarify with the OP.
Gary
I’ve had this many many times. Usually, I get a weird super high reading but I use a wine thief and draw from the bottom. If he’s drawing from the top, it would come out low.
To me, steeping means using non diastatic grains so you don’t have conversion.
Sorry for the late reply. I was making the robust porter recipe in “Brewing Classic Styles”, which I believe is 8.6lbs LME + 1 lb Munich + 0.5lb Black Patent + 1.0lb Crystal 40 + 0.75lb Chocolate malt. I have been hitting my gravities pretty well. I calculated my efficiency from “How to Brew”, where I took the Congress Mash expected points and compared that to what I actually got.
DW, now we need the details of what you did. How long did you steep/mash? In how much water? At what temperature? Was there a sparge or subsequent rinse? The lack of a sparge or subsequent rinse will cost you some efficiency.
DW, for the grains you have, the Munich is the only one that needs to be mashed, and it has low Diastatic Power. If you had those all together, the DP would be around 20 or 25, which is under the 35 often stated for conversion.
With the LME, and only a little grain that needs to be mashed, how far off were you?
So the Munich was not grain, it was LME, along with the Light LME. The only grains I mashed were the Crystal 40, Chocolate, and Black Patent. My PreBoil gravity was right on, but when I estimated the efficiency of extraction for just the mashed grains, my efficiency came to around 30%. Even though my volume was 7 gallons pre boil, I went back and mashed those grained again and increased the volume to about 7.5gallons. One problem I found was that my thermometer was about 20 degrees to low, so I was mashing in the 130 range. I had held it there about 30minutes before I figured that out, so I raised the temp to the appropriate range and left it about 15 minutes. I poured the extracted wort into the kettle along with the LME and only later went back and remashed and added up to 7.5gallons.-----------Having said all that, and I am appreciative of everyones’ help, I transferred to the secondary today (I had good OG and FG), but found the color to be really more of a brown color than black. Did I not extract enough of the CHocolate and Black Patent malt? I know those malts need more alkaline water, and my water is much more suited for light beers.
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You’ve answered Duboman’s question. You are not mashing those grains. You are steeping them.
There is no base grain in there to give you the diastatic power you need to convert the starches to sugar. You are only getting color and flavor from steeping those grains. I suppose you may extract some starches which could contribute to gravity, but you’re not going to get much if anything.
If you want to mash, you’ll need to include some base grains and hold the temp for 60 minutes. Like I said in a previous post, the difference between mashing and steeping is really just time and what grains you’ve got in there.
For those specific grains, there isn’t any benefit to mashing. There would be a benefit to steeping (1) in more water (2) for a longer time (3) at a hotter temperature (4) with a finer grind. I don’t think changing your water chemistry will have much effect on your efficiency since there is little to no starch to convert into sugar.
So by your term of efficiency and with confirmation of steeped grains, not mashed for conversion it appears perhaps you are calculating you expected OG incorrectly assuming the steeped grains will contribute to the gravity when it really won’t.
Also, you mention various volumes of wort being adjusted on the fly which will also affect your gravity readings and result in either lower or higher efficiencies results.
So to summarize it seems you need to work on your recipe creation and calculations as well as fine tuning your process to be more consistent.
This is some misleading and erroneous advice. There is absolutely no need to mash those grains, and you will absolutely get some gravity points from steeping them. The starches have already been converted by the maltster. While 30% is a little low, 50% would probably be an average expectation for a muslin bag of those grains. It is very difficult to get all the sugars out of a “ball” of grain.