Who needs kveik yeast when saison yeast does it better!!
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Seems like apples and oranges
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I love dupont, and while i don’t think WY 3726 is similar, i really prefer it to 3724, even though i like 3724. I find 3726 has very similar character, but much easier to work with in terms of fermentation.
Just my tastebuds, but i up sulphate, mash long and low, and aim for 1:1 OG:BU ratio as i like it bone dry and bitter, like Dupont ( or to my taste )
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I fall in the camp that believes that fermentation temperatures can push or restrain the ester production of the yeast, but the phenolic production is fairly consistent and is yeast selection driven. I don’t think you will where you want with a French Saison yeast or with Lallemand Farmhouse.
If you like Dupont Saison, then I would definitely give one of the Dupont strains a try (WLP565 and Wyeast 3724). I tend to keep the lid loose or cover the bung with foil the first few days and keep it warm once it gets going (pitch at 68F, free rise to 78F, add heat if needed) and I don’t have issues with “the dreaded stall” anymore.
I have made some great Saisons with Omega Yeast OYL-500 Saisonstein. I recently made a few batches with Mangrove Jack’s M41. I really enjoy it (especially for a dry yeast) but it seems to push a different phenolic character than the Dupont strains. There are some Fermentis strains I still want to try. I have enjoyed beers made by others with Imperial Rustic (B56), but I don’t think that is a regular strain from them.
Cheers!
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Brent your synopsis of how the phenolics and esters may be manipulated really resonates. I’ve been suspecting that in the past I have ramped my temperatures up too soon thereby not allowing enough spice character to develop or masking what did develop with esters, or both.
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Wow that looks insanely good. Can you clarify your comment though? I’m reading it as you don’t think 3726 is similar to Dupont, but that it is similar to 3724. Isn’t 3724 supposed to have originated from Dupont?
Thanks. What i meant is that most people claim 3724 is the best strain for Dupont clones, ( i don’t disagree ). I used to use it, and definately loved the saison i made with it, but hated the stall. I tried 3726, which is claimed to be blaugies ( Spelling? ). I love it as much as 3724, but it just powers through and is done in a week. I honestly think they’re very similar in character to my taste. If, when i order 3726 they are out, i’d happily use 3724.
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Correct. 3724 is Dupont
Years ago we did an experiment on Experimental Brewing that showed the stall can be avoided with open fermentation. That’s what Dupont does.
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The stall isn’t really a big deal for me, i just tried 3726 to see what it was like, and loved it as much, so just use that now.
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I will throw in a data point. Today I racked my saison/tripel into kegs. So called as I brewed 10 gallons and split it into two fermenters, one pitched with Westmalle yeast (WY3787) and the other Omega Saisonstein. The tripel finished at 1.008, the saison 1.004. The tripel is much fruitier with sone spice. The saison is mostly spice with little fruit and much drier. Of course, this is an evaluation based on drinking hydrometer samples, and the real taste test is weeks away.
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What was the fermentation profile?
The early results using the WLP590 are encouraging. Fermented at 65F until 1.014 then a 3 day (forced) ramp up to 74 to finish out at 1.002. With that, and the comments in this post, in mind I have a few questions for the group.
Do the Saison strains typically exhibit lower->spice, higher->ester regarding the fermentation temps? That would seem consistent with available info and other Belgian strain behaviors documented in BLAM.
If that is the case, how does the Dupont profile fit there? Is the spice/ester character DC shifted by 20F or so? Is it all ester and the spices are ingredients? Is it a complete outlier?
Definitely no spices as ingredients
Great news on your beer!
I find i get a really good blend of spice/ester without too much by pitching at 20c, then ramping 2c a day and on day 3 or 4 go to 26-28c.
Play around and take notes and you’ll find what works for you.
Maybe try different fermentation profiles with that yeast and take notes.
Personally i’d never add spices to saison, but that’s just my preference.
If you are going for something like Dupont that’s not finicky try omega saisonstein. It’s basically a cheater hybrid yeast between dupont and French saison.
It’s incredibly easy to work with and is expressive regardless of a big pitch rate, oxygenation, light pressure and temperature. Doesn’t stall like Dupont either.
My normal protocol for 1.050 to 1.060 5 gallon batch is a two liter starter, oxygenated to ~8ppm O2. I pitch at 68F and let it rise immediately to 72F (beer temp not ambient) until it’s mostly attenuated then I raise to 76F until full attenuation.
Even with big pitch rate I get plenty of pepper and some nice bubblegum esters. The bubblegum fades with conditioning and it tastes remarkably like Dupont after a few weeks.
Unlike most Belgian yeast that are tricky to dial in to be expressive without off flavors this one is very easy to work with and hard to F up.
It’ll take your Final Gravity down to ~1.000 even if you do a medium body mash in the low 150Fs
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Again, let me emphasize that Dupont yeast doesn’t stall if you open ferment
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That’s true but saisonstein doesn’t stall even if you don’t 
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17 days in the mid to upper 60s. I ferment ales in my basement with no temperature control. It gets a little cooler when the AC kicks on.
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