I brewed a milk chocolate oatmeal stout on 10/24 and today 11/6 I transferred the batch to a secondary. I tasted some of the beer and it taste like soy sauce. I was wondering how this happened, or causes for this. I mashed in low but raised the temp to 152* and used dry yeast, Windsor from Danstar/lallemand. The beer fermented between 63-68* which is my house temperature. And it looked to have completed fermentation in 4 days.
I rehydrated the yeast and used two packs because I was shooting for 8%abv.
The following was my grain build and hop schedule.
12lbs maris otter
2 chocolate
1 black
1 crystal 75
1 flaked wheat
East Kent holdings at 60 and 20 min (1oz each addition).
15 minutes 1 lb lactose
15 min whirlflock and yeast nutrient
10 minutes fuggle
5 minutes fuggle
I ended up boiling for 75 minutes. And I added oxygen from a tank prior to pitching the yeast.
Is there a way I can clean this up? And thoughts on why it might taste like soy sauce?
I have read about the yeast dying and people have blamed the chocolate malt.
Looking for advice and feedback.
2 lb chocolate and 1 lb black malt will lower the pH (acidify) the beer in a huge way. My guess is you used too much of these. I’d have limited to just like half a pound or less, just enough to get a black color without going overboard.
No, I did not adjust the ph at all, haven’t made it that far into home brewing yet. I was thinking it was the malts, more so the choco and black. I wanted to have a nice choco character but suppose I went a bit high with it. It did not taste hot to me, but I only had like 2oz to taste.
If I every thy this again I will use less of both!
The soy sauce taste is an off flavor? I know his beer doesn’t have an infection, or at least it appears to me as if it doesn’t. It’s not sour, more so salty and sweet is how I would describe it.
Do you think he fuggles as finishing hops could also contribute to this mixture of taste? Just the grassyness of those hops on combination of the choco/black and lowering of the ph.
It is unlikely to be an infection this early, but it is possible…the typical soy sauce comes from glutamates formed in the autolysis of the yeast, but can result from the dark malts and crystal clashing a bit with the lactose. I like a more restrained late addition with the dark malts and I hold off on a lot of lactose, but to each his own and you certainly have a need for some lactose given the style you made. As with any beer, balance is best. A lighter touch typically serves us better.
It is a hobby and now you can attempt a tweak on this recipe and see what result you get. I have done dozens of iterations of a particular style to get it where I like it (and some others may not like where I end up!) if you are sensitive to the soy sauce issue (I know I am), you should look to other ways to achieve the flavor profile you seek. Best of luck and brew on!
Soy Sauce flavor could be Autolysis. Just because your house stays at those temps doesn’t mean it’s fermenting at those temps. Fermentation creates heat. Your dry yeast could have been a little on the old side too.
Old yeast could give off a meaty, savory flavor, I suppose that combined with the dark malts comes off as soy sauce. Was it a nice, creamy pitch of rehydrated yeast?
I don’t disagree, under normal circumstances with healthy yeast. I’ve just always associated a meaty, soy character to autolysis. Obviously it doesn’t normally show up this fast - just thought if the yeast were old/in subpar shape, combined with trying to ferment a big beer with a warm ferment could have thrown yeast related off flavors, even autolysis if the yeast were old enough. Other factors may well have contributed.
I seriously doubt it’s autolysis. But there’s way too much roasted malt. Way too much. Dark malts are acidic. Soy sauce is kind of sour. I think that’s what’s going on.
I do not think it was the yeast itself. The dry yeast was not old and I do not think it was an underpitch either. (Could be wrong, but I used two packages and yeast nutrient)
I do think temperature could be part of the issue, my temp strip on my carboy displayed a higher temp than what my house was, but only a few degrees and this range was still acceptable for what the strain works best under.
I might have racked into secondary early but the fermentation took off and was very aggressive. I use blow off valves and the blow off water needed to be changed 3 time because it kept overflowing. (I use a growler)
If it is an underpitch, would anyone recommend a repitch?
And does anyone think the late hop additions could play a part in this off flavor? I.e. Hop flavor combine with lower ph and a high fermentation temp.
I ran oxygen for about 30 seconds.
I am new to pure oxygen, typically I used to shake the carboy. I have also been nervous about using oxygen because I didn’t want to eff up a beer, but I used the same amount of oxygen on a 10% wee heavy and the beer taste fine.
Typically how long should I oxygenate for if you think oxygen is part of the issue, I’ve read 30-60 seconds and plan to stick to thwith lower side of the timeline when I brew.
He’s talking oxidation, not oxygenation. 60 seconds of oxygen pre-fermentation (oxygenation) is fine. Exposure to oxygen post-fermentation (oxidation) can stale your beer or cause off flavors.
IME, it would be pretty hard for the beer to get badly oxidized in the primary fermenter. How much splashing was there when you transferred to secondary? You could oxidize there, but I don’t know how quickly that would change the flavor to soy sauce. I’ve seen oxidation change a beer’s color pretty quickly, though.
I’ve only experienced those soy sauce flavours in older beer s that were not stored well only once or twice with home brew and probably 1/2 a dozen times at the liquor store ( I live in a small town in Northern British Columbia and unpasteurized beers sometimes don’t survive the long journey and the fluorescent lights)
Way too heavy on dark malts though;think of it as a making coffee too strong, it’s the acidity that ruins the flavour I have become a fan of cold extracting part or all of my black malts in cold water the day prior to brew day and adding the liquid to the boil