What is the real differance between a stout and a porter? ???
Well, this topic will probably be debated to its death but here’s my rendition. A stout is a porter, a stout porter. The porter style died off some years ago and has made a come back recently. Generally, but not always, a stout will have more roasted barley than a porter and some porters will have no roasted barley. Alcohol strength isn’t a gauge either because some porters are higher ABV than stouts. It’s a bloody mixed up mess… :o
One of the best descriptions I have read to date:
Everything over here is a stout. Everything over there is a porter!
IMHO that’s about as close as you can come to a definition. To my way of thinking a porter can have roasted barley (I prefer black patent actually), but a stout must.
so how does a porter get its dark color with out roasted barley. and what is the lightest a porter is supposed to be? The guidelines say light brown to dark brown. seems pretty wide open.
Porters generally use chocolate malt, stouts don’t usually.
I see …it’s roasted and brown malts, chocholates and caramels malts. and lay off the roasted barley and black patents for a porter. this is kinda what i was thinking of doing for my chistmas brew but was going to add .5 lbs of rolled oats. is it then an oatmeal stout or an oatmeal porter.
Yes. 
Those are weasel words Denny. Unfortunately they are accurate.
the best explanation I have heard is that if the brewer calls it a stout, it’s a stout, if the brewer calls it a porter, it’s a porter.
Fred
+1 
That’s probably the best way to go. Every time I see “Stouts must have roasted barley”, I think of Sierra Nevada stout, which is all black malt and no roasted.
Black Patent = Porter
Unmalted roasted barley = stout
Chocolate may be used in either but more often in Porter.
stouts generally have more odd adjuncts - lactose, shellfish and such
Porters generally have normal adjuncts - Treacle, refined sugar and such
Stouts generally use high bicarbonate water (Dublin)
Porters generally use high sulfate water (London)
usually
Agree with Wilypig… +1
I’ve had great success with additions of Debittered Black Malt in both. Not as a substitute for Roasted Barley, but in addition to.
That is about the best way to describe the differences , from a historical perspective porter is a much older style, prior to dark roasted barley, the color of porters where achieved by preparing a almost home made molassess then burning the sugar ( Essentia Bina ) for additional color.
Ironically that may make the Sierra more like the original Guinness Stout (which itself was just a stronger version of their Porter).
As far as the roasted barley factor that keeps popping up in the Porter/Stout discussions, there is an interesting thing to consider: some accounts suggest that Guinness may not have even used roasted barley in any of their brews until probably the 1930’s.
When I’m judging what the brewer calls a stout, I’d better be getting some roast notes in aroma and flavor.
I only expect roast in Robust Porters. But the line is blurred as previously stated.
Pro brewers cross it all the time.
Horses mouth dept:
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style12.php
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style13.php
Pro brewers SHOULD cross it, because in commercial brewing (big or small) there is no line…
The “guidelines” are fine for competition judging… in that context they work well enough (even if they are unnecessarily confusing). Fortunately, the “guidelines” are still pretty well relegated to the world of homebrew competition for which they were invented. But I do fear the day that these concepts escape into the real world and attempt to bring sometimes skewed and allegedly definitive “style” definitions to consumers…it would only cause more confusion, not clarity.
The “guidelines” are in no way relevant to commercial brewers.
In fact, getting too hung up on “style” definitions would be a bad thing for beer in general.
I agree with the second part, but a common descriptive vocabulary is pretty important. “Blurry line” situations are one thing, but if a brewer advertises an “Amber” and an “IPA”, I think it’s reasonable to expect the IPA to be hoppier, lighter in color, less malty, probably higher alcohol, etc. Or a dubbel is literally a strong, dark, Belgian ale, in the common sense of all those words, but labeling it as such (BDSA) would be confusing.
Thats right on the money , …although I disagree " guidelines are generally accepted by all of us in the brewing industry ( homebrewers alike ), for without them where would we be ? what could we compare them to ? . As a judge , and a brewer …I don’t always agree with them , I just live with them,… and as a competitor I conform to them , as a beer lover and artist, I ignore them .