I’m planning on making 5 gallons of Belgian golden strong ale soon (OG ~ 1.082) with the current recipe sitting at 24% plain sugar. I’m planning on making a large starter, but with such a high percentage of sugar I was wondering how much of what kind of yeast nutrient would be best to ensure a good fermentation? Or do I even need to add nutrient?
Thanks.
Nutrient is basically adding some trace minerals such as Zinc which aid yeast growth and health. The fermentables don’t matter much really. I add yeast nutrient to every batch since I start with DI water. I use Wyeast nutrient blend. It may not be necessary if your water has these trace minerals in it, but it cant hurt to add the recommened amount(1/2 tsp for 5 gallons) to every batch as an insurance policy.
BTW I brewed 11 gallons of Belgian Golden Strong this weekend. 1.072 OG, 75% Pils 25% sugar. I used 1 tsp of nutrient and made a 5.5 L starter on a stir plate and oxygenated with pure O2 for 1 minute when I pitched the yeast. Pitched at 64, let rise naturally in a 72 degree room. was at 75 after about 24 hours and has since backed down to 72 and the krausen has dropped out completely as of this morning so its just about finished fermenting. I pitched Sunday morning. Was a very vigorous clean ferment. Should drop a couple more point over the next couple days and clean up nicely.(used Wyeast Belgian Strong strain)
I would advise on worrying about the amount of yeast you have before you worry about the nutrient. A starting gravity of 1.082 will need a good sized starter to begin with. If you’ve used nutrient before and it helped, I would continue to use it.
The tap water here is pretty good and really soft (not sure about trace minerals though), so I don’t use any kind of filtration or water conditioners. I haven’t noticed any fermentation issues in the past, and the only yeast nutrient I have is diammonium phosphate, which I assume doesn’t include other trace nutrients. I did attempt to make a gluten-free golden strong a while back using sorghum extract from my HB store and sugar that turned out really “cidery”. Though I’ve attributed it to not pitching enough healthy yeast or (less likely) something with the sorghum syrup. This time around I have a 1 gallon glass jug to make an even larger starter, so hopefully that will help.
diammonium phosphate isn’t so much a nutrient as it is red bull for yeast. Gives them wings. Yeast hulls are better for promoting yeast health, DP is good for getting that last bit of attenuation out of struggling yeast.
A starter is your best bet. Add nutrients to that.
I like to add the sugar once fermentation is well underway. I just reserve 1L or so from the batch, then add that later once I’ve boiled the sugar in it. It does three things: lowers the size of starter I need, reduces stress on the yeast, and slows total fermentation time. A slower ferment is a colder ferment. Colder ferment means fewer off-flavors.
I know there are a lot of people who do what you do, but I’ve never found an advantage to it when I tried it.
My experience agrees with Denny. Plus, if it all goes in at once it’s one less thing to forget.
When I have added sugar later, I’ve simply poured the dry sugar directly into the carboy. No worries. Ferments just fine.
My time, unfortunately, is limited so I do whatever I can to simplify and eliminate unnecessary steps.
I don’t claim it’s necessary. I try to pitch a lot of yeast with my Belgians. A lower OG makes it easier to hit a higher x/ml/*P figure. This falls into the “I’m comfortable doing it this way, so I keep doing it” category, not “this is the best of all ways to do this” category. And like Joe mentions, you’d have to evaluate any possible benefits against any time or other constraints.
I always use “yeast energizer” from my LHBS or GoFerm. Not sure what brand the energizer is, but it’s basically just DAP + autolyzed yeast. I don’t add the energizer if I’m using dry yeast and GoFerm.
I’ve seen this method suggested for helping to lower the FG in stronger beers where the yeast become sluggish, but I haven’t tried it. Does it work?
I’d give a qualified “it probably does, but it’s not necessary.” My qualifier: I mostly make Belgian and German ales. I’ve been brewing for eight years or so, seriously for about four. This last year my beers have gotten a lot better. There are a bunch of little tweaks I’ve added over the years that led to this point.
Right now I’m trying to figure out which tweaks actually matter, and which tweaks are just coincidental, so I don’t really have a good answer for you, other than the usual “This is how I do it and I like my beers.”
Denny, I have really had some nice results with the method, fwiw. Does seem to attenuate a little further (and I get 90% on my tripel adding all sugar - 20% - to the boil). I think it is a tool that can be used, and if you do have trouble with attenuation it is something you may try, especially with sugar additions over 20%.
As far as nutrients go, I add Wyeast nutrient to every batch I make. Seems to speed fermentation and cut down on sulphur compounds.
My experience is that it doesn’t work any better than just adding the sugar to the kettle.
I have to admit I only tried it maybe 3 times becasue I didn’t see enough gain to make it worth the additional hassle. Maybe I’ll try it again the next time I make my standard tripel recipe just to see if I missed something. But I’m so damn lazy!
I use the Wyeast nutrient in every batch, too.
There’s a fairly sound theory behind the idea of adding sugar late during fermentation: let the yeast eat the more difficult to digest maltose, and especially maltotriose before it gets all that simple sugar.
There might also be differences in the flavor profile if the yeast gets the simple sugars later compared to having them present in the beginning.
Funny enough while searching for patents on low calorie beers I just came across this old Pabst patent that deals with exactly this issue. They claim to get better attenuation if sugars are added later: http://www.google.com/patents?id=OvEsAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Don’t we hate it all when Denny’s experiences don’t line up with the theory 
Kai
I started adding the sugar later for two practical reasons: I don’t like using a blow-off tube, and I like pitching a lot of active yeast. Since most Belgian strains are especially “top-cropping,” no blow-off tube + lots of active yeast + lots of sugar (high OG) meant my airlock tube got plugged up and my bucket blew its lid off, spraying kraeusen all over my fermentation freezer.
Adding the sugar later keeps the height of the kraeusen lower, which was my primary goal. The more I learned about yeast health, osmotic pressure, and the effects of high temperatures on fermentation, the more theoretical reasons I had to continue what I was doing.
I’m sure a blow-off tube would’ve been more practical, but I just didn’t feel like messing with one.
I’ve noticed a (completely subjective and possibly incorrect) qualitative difference in my perception of phenols and esters in Belgian beers where I added dextrose once primary fermentation is about 3/4 complete. For whatever reason I don’t notice the same effects when adding sucrose instead of dextrose.
Seems like the overall recommendation (aside from a starter) would be to use some sort of yeast nutrient. A few of you have mentioned using Wyeast’s brand, is this just a personal preference or is it superior to say, White Labs Servomyces?
Also, thanks again for the replies, this has been an enlightening thread.
I know I do…then I’ve got to figure out what’s wrong with the damn theory!
Seriously, though, even though I post experiences that differ from theory I try to encourage people to try things and decide for themselves. In the case of adding sugar to the fermenter, the few times I tried it in a standardized recipe I really didn’t see different results than adding it to the kettle. But I’m always ready to admit that I screwed something up, so I’ll try it again. Just like decoctions…just becasue I haven’t found much if any difference by doing them, I still do decoctions sometimes just to see if I missed something.
Dammit…now I’m gonna have to get a tripel into brewing rotation to test this!