That German Lager flavor, round 2

[bluesman]

I fermented a Czech Pils at 38F last year…yes that’s right 38F. It took about two days to form the Krausen, but it was a thick white creamy layer (approx. 3" thick) of yeast WLP800, and very dense. I’ve never witnessed a krausen so clean, dense and white almost bright. It took almost 4 weeks for the krausen to drop. The beer was then lagered on the yeast for about 4 weeks. It had a nice clean grainy profile and a very fine beer indeed.

[davidgzach]

@bluesman

I fermented a Czech Pils at 38F last year…yes that’s right 38F. It took about two days to form the Krausen, but it was a thick white creamy layer (approx. 3" thick) of yeast WLP800, and very dense. I’ve never witnessed a krausen so clean, dense and white almost bright. It took almost 4 weeks for the krausen to drop. The beer was then lagered on the yeast for about 4 weeks. It had a nice clean grainy profile and a very fine beer indeed.

That’s a lot of patience Ron!

Dave

[joeysmokedporter]

@tygo

@nateo

I imagine modern brewers aren’t using caves anymore. IIRC, in one of the brewing network interviews, Charlie Bamforth mentioned cold crashing down to slush (or right above slush, I’m not sure.) I do remember him saying something like 1 day at 28* was better than 2 weeks at 32*, flavor-wise.

Yeah, I remember that interview.  Basically it’s a function of time and temperature.  Lower temp, less time.  Probably don’t want slush though.  Right above it is probably optimal.

One of my best lagers was a Bavarian Helles. Due to an equipment malfunction, my temp control on the chest freezer went haywire and it froze solid. I thawed it and continued lagering, then bottled. I haven’t replicated it since, even with the same recipe. “Helles frozen over” even took 1st place in the light lager category of a local competition. I don’t recommend freezing or slush but certainly cold lagering seems to help.

[nateo]

Why is it bad if beer freezes? I know it can make a chill haze permanent, but if the beer doesn’t have chill haze, what’s the risk in freezing it solid?

[dmtaylor (Dave Taylor)]

Autolysis.  Yeast cells explode or are pierced by ice crystals, releasing the yeast’s guts, which can give your beer a meaty or brothy flavor – not usually desirable characteristics!

[erockrph]

@nateo

Why is it bad if beer freezes? I know it can make a chill haze permanent, but if the beer doesn’t have chill haze, what’s the risk in freezing it solid?

I’ve had some damn good Eisbocks.

Since the amount of lagering time needed seems to be dependent on temperature, maybe all you really need to do is freeze the beer solid and then thaw it out and put it on tap.

@dmtaylor

Autolysis.  Yeast cells explode or are pierced by ice crystals, releasing the yeast’s guts, which can give your beer a meaty or brothy flavor – not usually desirable characteristics!

I’ve had Wyeast Smack Packs freeze up on me during shipment in the winter, and I was still able to thaw them, smack them, and get a healthy fermentation out of them. According to Lalvin, you can store dry yeast in the freezer. I’m not sure that a short freeze and thaw cycle would lead to significant autolysis. Although, if I were to try something like this, I’d probably want to get it off the yeast cake just in case.

[nateo]

Yeah, I wasn’t picturing freezing it on the yeast cake. Cold crash, rack, then freeze. It might be an interesting experiment. I’m planning a CAP I might try that on.

[tschmidlin]

@nateo

Yeah, I wasn’t picturing freezing it on the yeast cake. Cold crash, rack, then freeze. It might be an interesting experiment. I’m planning a CAP I might try that on.

I have a friend who does this for his light lagers all of the time, they are quite good (for light lagers).