Looking for some thoughts on making a clone for the “Upper Canada Brewing - Dark Ale”. I have a friend who really likes it, but can’t get the beer easily in the US. Was thinking it could be fun to try and make a similar enough clone as a fun little gift/project. Its more niche than I thought as after doing a quick search, there aren’t really any clone recipes out there. I only had the chance to try one bottle and I am also in the US so I can’t really get my hands on it either. Looking for advice on the recipe that I have, or if anyone has tried this themselves with the results they got.
The marking material for this beer describes it with “Like ales of Northern England, this ale combines British Challenger hops and yeast, spring water, carastan and black patent malts for a robust malty character and a rich chestnut-coloured ale." So this gives us some hints on Hops and the specialty malt giving it the dark color.
Having tried it myself, it seems to be a very caramel forward british brown ale. The carastan comes through a lot but it seems to have a some amount of dark crystal/caramel malts too. Doesn’t seem like the malt bill is too complex, but thats what I got off of one bottle.
I do 3 gallon batches for 2.5gal kegs normally, so I made sure to add the percentages to everything here. Brands of malt are mainly what is offered at my local homebrew store, minus the Carastan.
3 Gallon BIAB (70% mash efficiency)
Grain Bill
5lbs - Simpson Marris Otter (87%)
6oz - Bairds “Carastan” 35L (6.5%)
4oz - Briess Crystal 120L (4.4%)
2oz - Blackswaen Black Malt (2.2%)
Hops
60 min - 0.4oz Challenger 7.5% (20IBU)
10 min - 0.3oz Challenger 7.5% (5IBU)
Yeast
S-04 Yeast
Looking for a higher attenuating british yeast. Lower fermenting temp to keep the yeast character more clean (around 66 degrees)
Other
149F single-infusion mash for 60 minutes
OG: 1.049 | FG: 1.012 | 4.9% ABV
19 SRM
25 IBU
Never really gotten feedback on my recipe designs, so anything is appreciated outside of clone feedback as well.
My question is how ‘crisp’ is the end product supposed to be and how will water additions and your yeast choice be used to help hit the target?
Whenever I see a recipe I always look for the water profile because water is such a large part of the end product. Well over 90% in all but the highest alcohol beers. Minerality, alkalinity, So:Cl ratio, etc.
S-04 has a way of taking a finished beer to a low pH. Some people notice a tartness in the finished beer with S-04. (I am one) This can be desired in a crisp beer but not so welcome in a beer where a fuller mouthfeel is desired.
I think S-04 can produce great beer if the finished beer acidity can be counteracted with some alkalinity.
Hi, I’ve had this beer several times over the past decades. it’s made in guelph at a Sleeman site that probably produces a lot of beers under sapporo (sleeman) owned breweries for Canada.
IMHO, its probably a lot more like almost all north american 2row, 1 to 2% some debittered 500SRM roasted malt, maybe 2 to 4% medium crystal of some kind. i always recall it being super light tasting and feeling with a minimal roasted presence and sort of brown colour. around 15 to 20 SRM.
i havent used S04 much, but it i feel like this could actually be a lager yeast. it is not a cali yeast. im not going to deep dive on them, but i remember they had a bunch of products. the beers labelled upper canada brewing now are just the lager and “dark ale”, and i would imagine sleeman would simply use whatever yeast is expedient.
i would buy one to try becuase im curious, but i honestly dont even know where i’d find one anymore.
Good points to me made about the “Crisp” aspect of the beer with yeast and water profile. I’m not super educated on the water profile outside of the So:CI ratio, but given its clean drinkability I’d probably lean towards something more Sulfate biased. And with how light it is, I am going to guess low Minerality. I gave a quick example below of what I was thinking below.
I also agree that it’s so clean that whatever the yeast is, its for sure not a malt forward british yeast like freddthecat said. Surprised they suggest its not a cali ale yeast as that would be my next guess. But their marketing material says it is a british yeast. If S-04 isn’t one of the cleaner ones, I’d be interested to know what options I should look at. I do think there almost has to be some sort of dark crystal and a nuttier base malt with what I was getting too. It was light but It had different flavors going on in there to me. From the pricing I’ve heard and the lore I can believe it is a relatively simple recipe though.
Based on the discussion I honestly would probably just take out a little bit of the dark crystal but Its really going to come down to the yeast I think. Something about what I had suggested specialty malts but with a really clean character.
Personally, I would brew it as written though I probably would raise the estimated mash pH a smidge based on my experience with S-04. Take measurements at key steps, especially the finished beer. Then, taste it and see where adjustments could/should be made. Rarely do brewers hit their target on the first try but you can get in the ballpark. Fortunately, we get to drink all but the worst of our mistakes.
Unsolicited advice: I believe water chemistry is not the black art it’s made out to be by many. Listen to a few of Martin’s videos and read his Water Knowledge page and you’ll get it. Though others go much further, I simplified water adjustments to 2 steps using CaCl and gypsum, baking soda or acid:
Simultaneously set minerality level and So:Cl ratio. I target 60 ppm or less Ca for Soft, 80-100 ppm Ca for Medium, or 100+ ppm Ca for Firm water. Use more Calcium Chloride (CaCl) for malty beers or more Gypsum (CaSo4) for bitter beers. Bitter beers So:Cl ≈ 2-3. Balanced beers So:Cl ≈1. Malty beers So:Cl ≈ .5
once minerality and So:Cl are set to desired levels, adjust estimated mash pH. Bicarbonate (baking soda) to raise mash pH estimate or acid to lower mash pH estimate based on color: 5.2-5.4 for light, 5.3-5.5 for amber, 5.4-5.6 for dark beers. My pH measurements are cooled to room temp at 45 min so really it’s just verification of the model’s estimate. Note: The mash pH estimate is probably not going to be spot on. Allow a +/- .1 or more tolerance. On the very rare occasion my measurement is wildly out of tolerance of the estimated mash pH, I adjust with baking soda or acid which ensures downstream processes aren’t also wildly out of tolerance. Otherwise, if it’s within tolerance I note it on my brew sheet and go with it.
