What Variety of Maris Otter do You Use?

I have been using Maris Otter in my English Ales for quite a few years now.  I have used Munton’s, Simpson, and recently tried the Crisp Maris Otter in my Strong Bitter (i.e. ESB).  I have found that Crisp is a bit sweeter than Muntons.  Munton’s and Simpson seem about the same.

My wife, whose palate detects sweetness more than the average person, said that my ESB was a bit too sweet for her and not biscuity enough (I use some biscuit malt in the grain bill).  Although I did notice a bit of a difference from when I brewed it with Munton’s, I didn’t find it too out of the ordinary sweet.  Vital fermentation statistics: OG 14 degrees Plato, FG 4.7 degrees Plato (BeerSmith predicted 5.17 degrees Plato).  Yeast was WLP-002.  I realize it could be a bunch of variables that contributed the difference, but when I used Munton’s she never made any comments about higher sweetness.  Grain bill has always been the same except for base malt here.  (I can post if anyone is interested).

I am thinking about going back to Munton’s when I brew the ESB again, however I want to see how the Irish Red I brewed yesterday turns out with the Crisp malt.  I have also thought about a different yeast strain as well.  If there are any recommendations on a preferred malster for this base malt, I am interested in hearing your comments

It’s a matter of taste. If you both perceive an added sweetness, and your wife prefers the beer made with Munton’s then go back to using Munton’s.

While some of the maltsters’  MO may be a single variety product (like Simpsons is, that one I know for sure, and I’d bet Crisp and Fawcett’s) I know I’ve seen Muntons refer to theirs as “Maris Otter blend,” containing at least 60% MO but with other barleys included to match specs or control cost, etc.  Maybe this makes the difference your wife perceives?  It occurs to me that if you have a straight MO from one of the craftier producers, and it’s too intense, you could just cut it with some  basic 2 row and get the same effect, with more customizable results.

I just used Thomas Fawcett in a porter.  Granted the porter grain bill is a bit complex so it’s hard to speak to the flavor profile, but the finished product came out very much “to style” and finished dry (thankfully, because that’s the way I like 'em).  The Maris Otter was used at 64%, mashed at 152 and I used 1450.  I can’t say any other brand’s MO would have behaved differently and obviously there are a lot of variables, but I would definitely use TF’s Maris Otter again.

I like Crisp and Baird. Warminster was really good, but spendy.

You can find Muntons 100% MO for a premium. The blends are to minimize protein haze, which has been an issue with warmer summers in England. Ron Pattinson (I think it was him) said that more MO is sold than grown.

I believe Crisp No. 19 Floor Malted Maris Otter and Warminster Maris Otter are the only two that are floor malted. Crisp offers two other Maris Otter malts that are NOT floor malted. Munton is not floor malted. Simpson’s is not floor malted.

For me, it’s all about taste and like crisp.

I’ve grown very fond of Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter.  In fact, I happen to have had great success with all of the TF malts I’ve tried.  I use TFMO in all my English styles.

+1 love TF and it is one of the few floor malted along with Crisp if that matters to you.  Muntons is not floor malted last I heard.

I was not aware of that!  Thank you!

I can understand in an ordinary bitter, but does it really make a difference in something like an imperial stout or barleywine which base grain is used?

The few times I use MO, Warminster is my go to.

I don’t think the base grain would be detectable in a beer with a lot of other character malts or higher alcohol.  …but it sounds like a good test for Drew and Denny’s IGORs or Brülosophy’s gang to test it out.

One of the interesting outcomes I found from the OSU barley breeding program featured on the Expermental podcast was the pronounced flavor of base malt crosses. If it didn’t matter at all, I doubt the research resources would be expended in that area. Based on that effort, base malt matters significantly at least in a more simple grain bill.

I’d love to see that!

I use Muntons because that’s what my LHBS carries.  I’d order something different but I’ve never had any issues with the flavor.

I got to taste the same beer made with Full Pint, Full Pint/Violetta, Violetta/Full Pint, and Full Pint/Maris Otter in a blind tasting.  The differences were obvious.  What I found fascininating was how the Full Pint/Violetta was so different from the Violetta/Full Pint.  There’s another tasting coming up soon at OSU that I plan to attend.

I was always in the opinion that barley variety matter.

Look at Weyermann German Pilsner, Bohemian Pilsner and Barke Pilsner. Different barley Malted in the same facility (most likely the same way) {I could be wrong}.

My position remains that variety matters, and yet does not.  Let me explain.  A good maltster, with a good process, can make better malt from any barley variety than an inferior maltster can make from the same barley.  A truly inferior maltster can still make poor malt from the best barley.  So within a given maltster’s range, a certain variety may be preferred for certain properties.  But one maltster’s best product may be inferior to another’s most generic grade.  To make the best beer possible, you need the best ingredients available at the time.  For me that generally starts with choosing a trusted maltster, then deciding if a certain beer demands a specialty product from their range, if such a product is currently available.  So I think the question posed in this topic – whose MO do you prefer – probably will point to a maltster any of whose products you would find superior to the products of other producers, maybe even to the extent that you’d prefer their basic pale malt to another’s MO.  Variety is not magic; each malt must be evaluated on its own merits.

PS.  I currently am fanatical about the Weyermann Barke line, Thirsty_Monk.

But given a standardized malting process, variety makes a big difference.

Exactly.  It’s just that variety isn’t everything.  You need good process first.  I’m curious, Denny, have you had the opportunity to compare Full Pint pale malts from, say, MG and other producers?

Yeah, a number of the craft maltster here are using Full Pint.  As you say, waiting makes a difference, but there’s an underlying flavor they all have.