My 1st IPA & Pale Ale and How do you 1st wort hop

[2brew559]

Hello everyone
Good Morning  west coast time  ;D

Im starting to get into IPAS and Pale ales . .Yess Im heading to the darkness…LOL

I formulated 2 recipes a Pale Ale and a IPA(Rye IPA).

can you guys  “pretty please”  critique these  offer suggestions. Especially in the Hop schedules..

1. How would I do 1st wort hop (RYE IPA) if I batch sparge in a round cooler and the collect my 1st and 2nd runnings into measured food safe buckets so I know i have my preboil?

2. In the software when I choose to set my 1st hop as a 1st Wort HOP  the box that I usually input 60 mins. gets “grayed out”. The rest of the hop schedule stays normal. (Note: Hop schedules and amounts not  finalized, waiting for your professional inputs)

3. Crystal malts percentage usage:  In the IPAS and Pale ales recipes i’ve seen, some are without and some with medium amounts and some with over a 1lb in 5 gallon batch. What do you guys use? 
Its all over the place…hence my rookie IPA - pale ale confusions!!

4. SRMS:  how do you guys go about  getting the colors correct in these 2 styles…  darker crystals or  roasted grains?

Myself im thinking lower lovibond 60, 40’s and below and under .75lbs…??  :o

Recipe A (1st wort hop usage)
Method: All Grain
**Style: Specialty IPA: Rye IPA **
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.35 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.042 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)
Original Gravity: 1.056
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 5.95%
IBU (tinseth): 85.11
SRM (morey): 6.71

Mash temp: 152F -60 mins

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
8.75 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 83.3%
1.25 lb Flaked Rye 36 2.8 11.9%
0.5 lb United Kingdom - Crystal 60L 34 60 4.8%
10.5 lb Total

Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
1 oz  Bravo Pellet 15.5 First Wort Hop 34.86
1 oz Chinook Pellet 13 Whirlpool at 170 °F 0 min 17.7
1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.9 Whirlpool at 170 °F 0 min 12.12
1 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Whirlpool at 170 °F 0 min 20.43

Yeast:
White Labs - San Diego Super Yeast WLP090

Recipe B
Method: All Grain
Style: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.041 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)
Source: 2brew559
Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.010
ABV (standard): 5.71%
IBU (tinseth): 37.93
SRM (morey): 7.16

Mash temp: 152F - 60mins

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
7 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 70%
2 lb United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale 38 3.75 20%
1 lb United Kingdom - Carastan (30/37) 35 34 10%
10 lb Total

Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
0.25 oz Magnum Pellet 13.7 Boil 60 min 12.88
1 oz Centennial Pellet 9 Boil 15 min 16.8
1 oz Cascade Pellet 11 Boil 5 min 8.25
1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.9 Dry Hop 5 days
1 oz Amarillo Pellet 8.9 Dry Hop 5 day

Yeast:
White Labs - San Diego Super Yeast WLP090

[denny]

1.  Add the first wort hops to the buckets you collect the wort in, then make sure they stay in when you xfer the wort to your kettle. Leave them in throughout the boil.

2. There is debate about how much bittering you get from FWH.  To me, it tastes the same as a 20 min. addition, so that’s how I enter it in Promash.  Without knowing what software you’re using, it’s hard to tell you what to do.

3. I average 7-10% crystal in an APA/AIPA.  Sometimes less, sometimes more.  There is no rule.

4.  I usually use crystal 60 so the color comes out fine.  Otherwise, I don’t worry about color.  AIPA comes in a wide range of color.

[wort-h.o.g]

1. what Denny said
2. what Denny said
3. I like 4-5% carared or cara 45…depending on my base malt and my mood
4. color isn’t a factor or consideration…for me it is what it is.

Good Luck!

[denny]

The mention of carared reminded me…I used cararuby for the crystal portion of my last AIPA and really liked it.

[2brew559]

@denny

1.  Add the first wort hops to the buckets you collect the wort in, then make sure they stay in when you xfer the wort to your kettle. Leave them in throughout the boil.

2. There is debate about how much bittering you get from FWH.  To me, it tastes the same as a 20 min. addition, so that’s how I enter it in Promash.  Without knowing what software you’re using, it’s hard to tell you what to do.

3. I average 7-10% crystal in an APA/AIPA.  Sometimes less, sometimes more.  There is no rule.

4.  I usually use crystal 60 so the color comes out fine.  Otherwise, I don’t worry about color.  AIPA comes in a wide range of color.

Mr Denny, 
Again thank you for the help…

I use “Brewers Friend”
See attached:

By the way>>>> I made version no. 2 of my Amber Ale

Pilsner, Carastan and CaraAroma
Yeast: Dennys Fav…

One word description… WOW!!!
Going to keg it Sunday so will lost pics after that! [emoji481]

[2brew559]

1. what Denny said
2. what Denny said
3. I like 4-5% carared or cara 45…depending on my base malt and my mood
4. color isn’t a factor or consideration…for me it is what it is.

Good Luck!

Mr Wort-H.O.G,

Same to you very professional and you are a great help! Even though u answered in a list format…lol

Still awesome and thank you!

I attached the image of the brewers Friend on my reply to mr. Denny.

Will take both of your advices

[denny]

Good to see you using the Denny’s Fav!

[2brew559]

Denny,

2nd time using it. .

1st time: I used it on the porter i posted a while back - AWESOME!

2nd time: 2 weeks ago: on my 2nd version of an amber I made:  took gravity sample before adding dry hops… W+ I got it to attenuate  much better this time… I hit my final gravity to the nail!

Oh and on regards to Hops:

when formulating a hop schedule:  do you alter the bittering IBUS only to hit the range your after or do you alter all the hop schedule.?    I know it depends on beer style… but in general…

Example:

Bittering 60 min: .25 oz magnum

Flavor 20/15 mins: 1 oz centennial

Aroma 5/0 mins: 1 oz cascade

[wort-h.o.g]

generally I schedule hops as follows:

target IBU - first addition at around 5 minutes into a 60 minute boil (after hot break). so if i want 60IBU, i deploy enough of my bittering hop to achieve this.

sometimes I use 5min or less and flameout additions.

lately Ive been doing a hop stand at 170F for about 20-30minutes. my last IPA for 5-gal used 6oz.

lastly I dry hop.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

I use these two methods primarily, depending on style:

1/  Add the amount of late hops I want into software first, then add the balance of IBU needed to hit my target IBU as a 60 minute or FWH addition.

2/  Add all my target IBU at 60 minutes with nothing else in the boil. Then cool to 170-175F and add all the flavor and aroma additions that I would normally have added in the boil. Steep 20-45 minutes depending on what I’m after.

Dry hop where appropriate and to preference.

[wort-h.o.g]

I use these two methods primarily, depending on style:

1/  Add the amount of late hops I want into software first, then add the balance of IBU needed to hit my target IBU as a 60 minute or FWH addition.

**2/  Add all my target IBU at 60 minutes with nothing else in the boil. Then cool to 170-175F and add all the flavor and aroma additions that I would normally have added in the boil. Steep 20-45 minutes depending on what I’m after. **
Dry hop where appropriate and to preference.

precisely what I did Jon with the all el dorado IPA i just made. wlp090 is almost done now at +96 and its been throwing some awesome aroma.

next comes the dry hop  and then the fun begins in 3 weeks when I can tap it 

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

I use these two methods primarily, depending on style:

1/  Add the amount of late hops I want into software first, then add the balance of IBU needed to hit my target IBU as a 60 minute or FWH addition.

**2/  Add all my target IBU at 60 minutes with nothing else in the boil. Then cool to 170-175F and add all the flavor and aroma additions that I would normally have added in the boil. Steep 20-45 minutes depending on what I’m after. **
Dry hop where appropriate and to preference.

precisely what I did Jon with the all el dorado IPA i just made. wlp090 is almost done now at +96 and its been throwing some awesome aroma.

next comes the dry hop  and then the fun begins in 3 weeks when I can tap it 

Cool !  It definitely gives killer flavor and aroma. I’ll be curious to see what you think.

[denny]

I use these two methods primarily, depending on style:

1/  Add the amount of late hops I want into software first, then add the balance of IBU needed to hit my target IBU as a 60 minute or FWH addition.

2/  Add all my target IBU at 60 minutes with nothing else in the boil. Then cool to 170-175F and add all the flavor and aroma additions that I would normally have added in the boil. Steep 20-45 minutes depending on what I’m after.

Dry hop where appropriate and to preference.

I do very much the same.  I start by deciding on the overall IBU amount of the beer, then how much flavor I want from the FWH and decide on the amount…usually 1-2 oz. FWH.  I look at the amount of IBUs that adds and subtract from my overall IBU target.  Then I add enough hops at 60 min. to get me real close to my overall IBU goal.  Then I start adding in late hops.  I know I won’t get many IBUs from those.  If I go over my target, I start gradually cutting back on my 60 min. addition.

[narcout]

You might consider bumping the gravity up on the rye IPA.

[2brew559]

generally I schedule hops as follows:

target IBU - first addition at around 5 minutes into a 60 minute boil (after hot break). so if i want 60IBU, i deploy enough of my bittering hop to achieve this.

sometimes I use 5min or less and flameout additions.

lately Ive been doing a hop stand at 170F for about 20-30minutes. my last IPA for 5-gal used 6oz.

lastly I dry hop.

Wort Hog,

Example: Target 40 IBUS

So basically calculate my bittering charge at the hot break/ 60 mins to get me about/ approximate 40 IBUS

then add/ formulate the remaining Hops and their contributions to the total IBU amount that I want to have/ beer style…flavor, aroma, etc…

Thank you very very very much… as always your have helped me out again!

[2brew559]

@narcout

You might consider bumping the gravity up on the rye IPA.

narcout,

Thanks for the suggestion… also the hop schedule was from another sim. rye IPA I saw/ read + it also had a boat load of dry hops / variety’s…  amarillo, clolumbus, chinook…ciitra…1 oz ea… ( too many)

I dunno id i want to have more than 3/4  hop varieties…

I kinda want to simplify it…  Thinking of magnum(bittering)… Centennial, cascade, Amarillo

[2brew559]

I use these two methods primarily, depending on style:

1/  Add the amount of late hops I want into software first, then add the balance of IBU needed to hit my target IBU as a 60 minute or FWH addition.

**2/  Add all my target IBU at 60 minutes with nothing else in the boil. Then cool to 170-175F and add all the flavor and aroma additions that I would normally have added in the boil. Steep 20-45 minutes depending on what I’m after. **
Dry hop where appropriate and to preference.

precisely what I did Jon with the all el dorado IPA i just made. wlp090 is almost done now at +96 and its been throwing some awesome aroma.

next comes the dry hop  and then the fun begins in 3 weeks when I can tap it 

Cool !  It definitely gives killer flavor and aroma. I’ll be curious to see what you think.

Hossierbrew,

Guy, your killing me with your help…  in a great way!!! 

Thanks so much again!  very very helpful…  gonna use this info to make my comeback in a bit… LOL and repost the final recipe… for yours and everyone critique…

[2brew559]

Ok so here’s  everyone’s suggestions…
Hopefully i didn’t screw this up…

By the way if the BUGU ratio is suggested to be approx.  0.84  ratio.

I can’t come close to that once I add my 1oz of FWhop .the recipe goes into 1.+ territory.

So will it be like Windex bitter…!

Guess that’s were my confusion is…the FWHOp
Takes me easily over the BUGU ratio .84 suggested target.
( see included revised recipe)

Do I need to scale that 1 oz back?? Does it heavily contribute to bitter taste since it’s sitting in the Wort longer than the 60mins typical hope addition?..

I’ve never did this hence my question might seem lame…

[denny]

The FWH will not taste as bitter as it calculates.

[2brew559]

@denny

The FWH will not taste as bitter as it calculates.

Denny,

Ok great …that’s good to know
I was really worried I messed something up
And this would be a bitter bomb!