Lately, It seems every thread turns into a technique discussion or derails into some rabbit hole. For example, it goes something like this:
OP: what hops should I use for XYZ style?
A1: Cascade
A2: I live in Timbuktu
A3: I used to live there but the local beer sucked so I moved when I was five
A4: that’s because you’re brewing wrong. You have to use this spreadsheet for your cleaning solution otherwise your beer sucks.
A4: I disagree it has to be based on stone tablet writings or your beer sucks.
A5: Mosaic
A6: if I lived in Timbuktu I’d fish the crap water creek more.
A7: Brewing only works THIS way and if you don’t do it like the Tibetan Buddhist Monks your beer sucks
A8: …but Timbuktu is where I grew up and the river went dry
A9: I use Nelson Sauvin
…and on and on. Totally derailed from the initial post.
We gotta stay on point folks. The OP had something to say that is not currently being discussed so (s)he started a new thread.
If you want to discuss fishing that’s cool. Start your own thread.
If you want to argue the advantages of brewing like Tibetan Buddhist Monks that’s cool. Start your own thread.
It’s becoming a drag to come here to discuss experiences, techniques, and creations.
I have mixed feelings… I can see your point… We should indeed all try harder to always address the OP’s concerns and tie back to the OP as much as possible. And if not, yes, new thread. But on the other hand, there are entertaining times as well. A little bit of derail is a good thing. Out of hand, a bad thing. Yeah. The most important thing is “balance”. It’s all about “balance”.
I think it depends on the thread. I’ve certainly learned quite a bit from the many derails that have happened on here.
Sometimes things turn into a derails when a low oxygen reference is made and people (again) start debating about if it really matters or not. Lately it seems those against low oxygen brewing have been stirring the pot, and that has resulted in a few threads getting derailed. Let the low oxygen folks say their piece and just move on, and debate them in another thread.
If a new member asked about starters, and someone suggested SNS instead of a stirplate, we wouldn’t start debating if SNS starters are a valid approach or not.
Right. So why not start treating low oxygen the same way? We’ve got enough members touting its merits, and while I’ll agree it’s not for everyone, launching into an all-out debate every time someone says low oxygen will help is getting old.
A while back there were many threads about how to reduce oxygen at kegging/racking/cold crashing/etc. They’ve all dried up, in part because I think some folks don’t want to bring up anything related to oxygen. We all need to just relax a bit.
Very well said Phil. At the end of the day we are trying to help. If some people take that another way, then that’s a personal decision, but at the heart of it is a desire to help people brew better beer (this doesn’t mean you currently brew bad beer).
Yup. Low oxygen is trending the same way SNS did. It’s pretty easy to see the similarities between Mark and Bryan (I mean this as a complement to both) for sticking to their guns and providing evidence-based results. The difference is that SNS is so flippin’ easy I don’t understand why so many bucked at the concept. Low oxygen, while still quite simple to implement, is a tad more involved.
From what I remember, the resistance wasn’t doubting SNS, but because of the anti-stirplate stance of Mark. It’s not the introduction of something new as much as it’s the discrediting of practices used by many. People don’t like to be told they are wrong.
I appreciate the low oxygen research and participation of those spreading its merits, but we all need to “know our audience” before replying. While most of the posts are by advanced brewers, I assume most of the posters/readers fall into the beginner-intermediate crowd. I wouldn’t reply to an OP asking about when to add extract with “don’t add extract and switch to all-grain.” I know that’s hyperbolic, but it fits my point.
There is a lot of pot stirring from a few members and even mods. That’s sad.
I’ll say this one time and one time only. Please don’t get too excited and don’t let this turn into yet another derail.
I think the trouble with LODO is, it’s not the standard yet, and barely any people know about it yet – probably way less than 5% of all homebrewers know anything about it, so every single time that it’s brought up, the next question is, “what’s LODO?” and we have to go into more detail, yadda yadda, so just by bringing it up at all can turn the whole dang thread into yet another derail. Maybe one day far in the future, the process will become more well known and understood, and maybe forums like these are the best way to get the information out there, and that’s fine, I have no problem with that. But I can see this both ways. From one side, LODO proponents see this method as the answer to a LOT of problems, and have been extremely vocal about it, while on the flip side, others see these terms and references as constant reminders of something they don’t agree with, don’t know anything about, or just are unwilling to accept (yet). Personally I’m undecided as to the merits at this point but if I had to lean one way, I’m honestly growing more and more tired of constantly hearing of how it can cure-all. Right or wrong, that’s the impression I have and the taste in my mouth at this point in time.
But anyway, we digress, significantly… ;) My apologies to all those who will get excited by this response. My advice: Please DON’T get excited. After all, I’m truly just another idiot from the interwebs. I have opinions, and so do you, so let’s just feel free to put out our opinions with no fear of retribution, and respect each other. I promise, I truly promise, that I am actively trying harder to do the same.
I do think derails have gotten worse in recent years, in maybe about the past ~2 years. There’s FAR less traffic on all forums these days, too, which only serves to distill out the really vocal and really major obsessive nuts such as myself. The less obsessive or very knowledgeable folks have largely moved out of the forums because they 1) learned enough and didn’t find them valuable any longer, and/or 2) because they don’t enjoy discussions with some of those who remain (and the list goes on but these two serve my point). If true, this is indeed kind of a sad state of the forum (note: tying back to the OP!).
I for one promise I’m a nice guy in real life. I’m just a real obsessive dork when it comes to homebrewing, that’s all. Profuse apologies to all those I have ever offended. I really don’t mean to. Hope you all feel the same way if you’ve ever felt yourself to be in a similar role. Maybe it really is time to take more of a back seat from here on out. I’ll think about this. It’s just… difficult to give up an addiction. And for some of us, like me, these forums truly are an addiction of sorts. This too is a little bit sad. A little bit.
