Chasing the perfect Munich Helles

[hopfenundmalz]

@charles1968

@hopfenundmalz

@charles1968

grainbill from a Munich Helles recipe on the German homebrew site MaischeMalzundMehr

Pilsener Extra Hell: 3.7 kg (61.7%)
Helles Tennenmalz: 2 kg (33.3%)
Carahell: 0.3 kg (5%)

I think Tennenmalz is an heirloom variety of floor-malted malt made by Weyermann.

Tenne translated to threshing floor. If you look at their products auf Deutsch, you find that it is what we call the floor malted Bohemian malt.
Weyermann® Spezialmalze – Braumalz-, Röstmalz- und Caramelmalzfabrik Bamberg

English page
Home – Weyermann® Spezialmalze

That makes sense. What about pilsner extra light though? I haven’t come across that before.

It is on this page.
http://www.weyermann.de/eng/gelbe_Seiten_en.asp?snr=1&idkat=1013&umenue=yes&idmenue=37&sprache=2

I have used Best Malz Heidelburg, which is in the 1.2-1.6 L range.

[system]

@charles1968

@rabeb25

The devil is in ALL the details, and if you think water, hops, malt and yeast are the details, you are SORELY mistaken.

But there must be many different varieties of Munich Helles, all using recipes and techniques that vary around a few core essential points. The key is finding out those essential points - not all the details, many of which might not matter so much.

RIGHT, hence… The devil is in ALL the details  8)

[atodd]

@rabeb25

@charles1968

@rabeb25

The devil is in ALL the details, and if you think water, hops, malt and yeast are the details, you are SORELY mistaken.

But there must be many different varieties of Munich Helles, all using recipes and techniques that vary around a few core essential points. The key is finding out those essential points - not all the details, many of which might not matter so much.

RIGHT, hence… The devil is in ALL the details  8)

Got any tips for a first time Helles brewer on what some of those details might be?

[system]

@atodd

@rabeb25

@charles1968

@rabeb25

The devil is in ALL the details, and if you think water, hops, malt and yeast are the details, you are SORELY mistaken.

But there must be many different varieties of Munich Helles, all using recipes and techniques that vary around a few core essential points. The key is finding out those essential points - not all the details, many of which might not matter so much.

RIGHT, hence… The devil is in ALL the details  8)

Got any tips for a first time Helles brewer on what some of those details might be?

Depends, how authentic do you want it? Like sitting in Munich with one in hand. Or getting a “Helles” from some American brewery?

[69franx]

Rabeb, I’m interested in this as well. I’ve been to your FB page and love the looks of your equipment. I have enjoyed the few lagers I have made, but am interested in better lagers. Never  traveled to Germany, but I can learn

[atodd]

@rabeb25

@atodd

@rabeb25

@charles1968

@rabeb25

The devil is in ALL the details, and if you think water, hops, malt and yeast are the details, you are SORELY mistaken.

But there must be many different varieties of Munich Helles, all using recipes and techniques that vary around a few core essential points. The key is finding out those essential points - not all the details, many of which might not matter so much.

RIGHT, hence… The devil is in ALL the details  8)

Got any tips for a first time Helles brewer on what some of those details might be?

Depends, how authentic do you want it? Like sitting in Munich with one in hand. Or getting a “Helles” from some American brewery?

I am looking to bring myself back to Munich, i went last summer and it was incredibly eye opening how far off some American examples are.  I brewed Kai’s Munich Dunkel (it is still has a few weeks to go) and am thinking of trying his Helles next but wouldn’t mind any other tips and tricks.

[system]

To quote my mentor “If you allow me to paraphrase, you bought a canvas, paint and some brushes, learned about general composition of the old masters and drawn loads of caricatures of your teachers in class, but then expect to produce a work like Rembrand. The breweries spent generations of owners perfecting their recipes and art.  I think it’s OK to give it more time.”

I have been chasing this for at least 10 years, with the last year being SERIOUS. Serious, as in Decoding German brewing texts, and getting in contact with some of most illusive people I have even seen. Brewing using methods most of the world has never heard of. For instance today I used the Kubessa Verfahren, which is a mash that you separate the husks from the starches, and utilize a decoction with the starches (fine and coarse grind) while maserating the husks in another mash. I have used malts that people know nothing about. The crazy things about it is, I was not alone. We formed a group, and are all driving after the same thing, brewing authentic German beers, Hell even the group, has a secret group!

The problem is, Americans brew German beers wrong, flat out. We were taught wrong, I am as guilty as the next guy. We always try to do it over the top, and that muddy’s everything else. We use the wrong water, at the wrong pH, mash the wrong way, boil and hop wrong( the formulas are wrong), ferment wrong… I could seriously go on for hours. It took me a LONG time to get past it. That being said, I have yet to create what we coined 'it", “it” being that harmonious, out of body experience you get from tasting these fresh beers.

Sorry for the run on, but thats why I ask what you are out to create. If you are serious, this will not be the place for it, but I will get you where you need to be. As I said before you need to “be sheltered” from what you have been taught, and here is not the right place for that. Either way I respect it.

This post was fueled by my latest helles attempt, while brewing another

[wort-h.o.g]

@rabeb25

To quote my mentor “If you allow me to paraphrase, you bought a canvas, paint and some brushes, learned about general composition of the old masters and drawn loads of caricatures of your teachers in class, but then expect to produce a work like Rembrand. The breweries spent generations of owners perfecting their recipes and art.  I think it’s OK to give it more time.”

You forgot the T in Rembrandt…the devils in the details I hear  ;D

Seriously-I hope you crack the code and then publish it.

[system]

@rabeb25

To quote my mentor “If you allow me to paraphrase, you bought a canvas, paint and some brushes, learned about general composition of the old masters and drawn loads of caricatures of your teachers in class, but then expect to produce a work like Rembrand. The breweries spent generations of owners perfecting their recipes and art.  I think it’s OK to give it more time.”

You forgot the T in Rembrandt…the devils in the details I hear  ;D

Seriously-I hope you crack the code and then publish it.

Ahh, indeed!

Problem is even if I did crack the code, no one would believe it or follow it! Which is why I think Kai, sort of vanished, he was on to something!

[hopfenundmalz]

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

[system]

@hopfenundmalz

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

Yes, and there is a formula when you drop that pH in the kettle as well

[wort-h.o.g]

@rabeb25

@hopfenundmalz

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

Yes, and there is a formula when you drop that pH in the kettle as well

this is one thing i have been doing also.

[AmandaK]

@rabeb25

@hopfenundmalz

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

Yes, and there is a formula when you drop that pH in the kettle as well

What’s the formula?

[system]

@AmandaK

@rabeb25

@hopfenundmalz

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

Yes, and there is a formula when you drop that pH in the kettle as well

What’s the formula?

Ahh, its not that easy, it’s out there.  8)

[klickitat_jim]

So, step 1: find out how to brew a perfect Helles. Step 2: brew it. Roger that

[69franx]

Jim, don’t forget to rinse and repeat as necessary [emoji12]

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@klickitat_jim

So, step 1: find out how to brew a perfect Helles. Step 2: brew it. Roger that

Yeah, that’s my takeaway so far.

[klickitat_jim]

Next Monday Im brewing an Helles, and an Helles Exportbier. Will be the 4th attempt at the Helles, trying to dial it in.

1.050 | 18 IBU
9.5 lbs Best Malz Pils
1.5 lbs Best Malz Vienna
Mashed at 145F for 2hrs, target 5.3pH adjusted with lactic per Brewers Friend, 50Ca 10Mg 8Na 50CaCl 0 SO4 107 HCO3
28g Mittelfruh @60
28g Mittelfruh @ 10
2 x 1000ml Wyeast 2308 high krausen pitches
50F
Final pH target 4.3
Cold fined with gel
Bottle conditioned at 2.7 volumes, then lager in cases at 38F for a month

I guess time will tell

[system]

@klickitat_jim

So, step 1: find out how to brew a perfect Helles. Step 2: brew it. Roger that

Yeah, that’s my takeaway so far.

If it were only that easy.  Knowing how is like 1/25 of it.

[hopfenundmalz]

@klickitat_jim

Next Monday Im brewing an Helles, and an Helles Exportbier. Will be the 4th attempt at the Helles, trying to dial it in.

1.050 | 18 IBU
9.5 lbs Best Malz Pils
1.5 lbs Best Malz Vienna
Mashed at 145F for 2hrs, target 5.3pH adjusted with lactic per Brewers Friend, 50Ca 10Mg 8Na 50CaCl 0 SO4 107 HCO3
28g Mittelfruh @60
28g Mittelfruh @ 10
2 x 1000ml Wyeast 2308 high krausen pitches
50F
Final pH target 4.3
Cold fined with gel
Bottle conditioned at 2.7 volumes, then lager in cases at 38F for a month

I guess time will tell

If you enter competitions it will have too much hop flavor and aroma from the 10 minute additions according to the judges, who have probably never tasted a fresh Helles in Bayern. If you like it, drink up!